KS/Behavioural update on Prince

[Llwyncwn]

Took Prince to clinic yesterday for investigations into his behaviour and possible KS/fracture and they can find absolutely nothing. They did flexion tests and x-rayed his spine and suggested that we take his saddle over this morning and lunge him in their pen in the hope that this will produce a re-run of his explosion last week.

Its sods law that he will behave like a little angel and, if this is the case, where do we go from here?

Before the 'cattle crush' incident about 4/5 months ago he was a 'normal horse', could this behaviour be learnt from one incident? Here's a link to last thread/history http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3382954/an/0/page/1#3382954

Can anyone offer any suggestions, no matter how obscure they might be as Prince's options are getting slimmer by the day

 

[BethH]

Am very surprised they have found nothing, have you any good behaviour people near you or can your vet recommend anyone as think that maybe that has to be the next step, not sure where you are based I can only recommend a couple of people in Kent which I have a feeling is a pretty long way from you, but someone who has loads of experience with behavioural problems and backing problem horses would be ideal, I really thought the vet would find something in the back to at least give you a clue, you must be feeling pretty frustrated at this point, good luck vibes being sent your way.

 

[Flame_]

Are you sure he was a "normal horse" before the cattle crush incident? Did you actually know him well recently before? Its just that putting a horse in a cattle crush (while obviously still not the most sensible course of action) sounds like a desperate attempt at working with a very problematic horse after other more normal methods have been attempted with no success. Its just not the sort of thing anyone would do to a "normal horse".

A horse on my old yard occasionally flipped when saddled up. Once to the point that he'd lost it so much he severed a tendon and carried on bronking and throwing himself around on three legs. Very dangerous horse, he wasn't around for long. I might be totally off the mark and have no scientific facts to base this guess on but I think there is something else totally that the vets don't even know about yet.

The horse now in the stable next door to mine occasionally reacts to girthing but is quite happy to carry a rider. Its quite common for strange saddle/rider reactions. They seem to have pretty much sussed KS and it seems that is far more common than it used to be thought. I can't help but think that this is something real and physical that is just, so far, inexplicable and un-diagnosable. But this really is just speculation and only MHO. I just think its better than saying "its been investigated and its guaranteed 100% fine - get a kamikaze jockey and make it get used to it", if that makes sense at all! Good luck anyway.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Echo KVS's very thorough and thoughtful reply H. No-one would have put Prince in a cattle crush unless they were trying to sort something fairly major out. He's such a nice young ned I couldn't see him freaking out like that unless it was pain related. Has he EVER done it without a saddle on, ie just being tacked up to lunge? I wonder if just turning him away for a year and then completely re-starting him would sort it, though of course that's a long term "maybe" with no guarantees whatsoever.

 

[Llwyncwn]

Well, just arrived home after our visit to see Prince at the vets along with his saddle and tack ready to lunge him, as arranged. No vets there and unfortunately no one thought of letting us know either. Couldnt get to find out much about the x-rays apart from the fact that they only x-rayed from the withers back. Bought Prince home and settled him into his box quietly. Complete waste of a morning and still no answers.

Thanks KVS - The guy who bought him was from Bedfordshire, a first time owner and complete novice rider. Before he took Prince home, he stayed with the breaker for a week and rode Prince every day, hacking over fields, through streams et al. When he moved Prince back to Beds, a local girl offered to help him as Prince wouldnt stand to be mounted, young and recently broken with a complete novice - quite normal for a youngster I would say.

When Prince came back to Carms to be re-broken/schooled, you could mount him from the offside, but if you attempted to get your foot in the n/s stirrup, he would rear.

I truely believe that it is pain related. Could it be neurological? His owner doesnt have an endless supply of cash so how do we find out what the problem is?

 

[Bubbles]

Hi Llwyncwn, having been in exactly the same boat as you for over 18 months I 100% sympathise. In my situation, I'll tell you what I tried and what I was advised to try. Before we'd settled on assuming a pain response, I had a 'natural horseman' trainer helping rebreak my boy in, he managed to get us so far but I then had to admit defeat and sent him to Mike Peace for 4 months. He managed to work miracles but could still only get the horse so far and recommended I work with a pro eventer to see if we could finish him off at home. Pro couldn't get him any further (I'm talking bolting, spooking, in absolute sheer terror when mounted).
We then experimented giving him large doses of bute to see if it was a pain response, no diff seen. By now my vet was involved and was unable to shed any light other than spotting a very mild hind limb lameness. We tried a course of long standing mild sedative (fluphenazine) to see if that took the edge off the panic: difficult to say if this helped as some of his best work was after the dose had run out, some of his scariest was mid dose...
Eventually the horse went lame so we threw the book at him and had his entire body bone scanned, this showed nothing other than a mild case of kissing spine but my vet wasn't at all convinced this was the cause and suspected neuro problems. 2 stays at the Royal Vet College and over 4k of diagnostics showed that he had progressive damage to his hind suspensories, other than that everything including eyesight and neuro came back 100% clear, he even had a spinal tap to see if he had any silent disease going on. We still don't know what caused my poor horse's extreme behaviour, we can only assume that it was low grade pain coupled with some sort of psychological trauma.
This isn't in anyway meant to depress you, just thought it might be useful to know what sort of options you'll be offered. One thing a vet will want to rule out (and I'm not suggesting this for one minute) is that the problem isn't caused by a rider so they may suggest using a professional to assess the horse. Best of luck, I didn't have an endless supply of cash to go through all of the above, but I've certainly got the debt to prove it now. If you really believe this horse is reacting to pain, the first thing the vet will tell you to do is try an analgesia trial, but I can't emphasise enough the vet should be involved at every stage.

 

[dozzie]

My horse has sacroiliac strain/injury and a hamstring injury caused by a collision with a car. She showed all the symptoms of kissing spine but sacroiliac injuries can not be seen on a normal scan or xray it requires scintigaphy scans. If the horse went over in a cattle crush he could have strained himself.

My horse also as a result had saddle issues. I used a Korrector pad and then went to a Wow saddle and it has stopped the broncs, stil get a very occasional buck (about once every 6 months) but it remains as one buck!

It might be worth looking into a Korrector. I still use mine if my saddles need a tweak and I am waiting for the saddler.

My physio found the problem for my horse and the scans confirmed.

Sorry i cant be much help but just wanted to highlight it could be something physical still!