Lab pup won't retrieve HELP!!!

[Charlie007]

Posted a few times re our lab pup. She is fantastic, lovely nature etc. Her party piece was retrieving, she wouldn't lie down etc. Now she will do all the other stuff, sit and wait, recall, down etc and won't retrieve!! As she will hopefully eventually be a gun dog this could be a massive problem!! To start with the retrieve was great. Ran straight to it, collected it, gave it to us and then sit and a treat. Now she will wait for it to be thrown, look at it, I say fetch and she sits and looks at me, or will run to the toy then turn round and come back minus toy, or run to toy then just run elsewhere. We didn't over do the initial retrieve so where have we gone wrong and more importantly can we fix it? Thanks

 

[Cedars]

Hi Charlie007. Excuse my random question but there is a point to is! Were parents hip scored? xx

 

[Charlie007]

Yes I believe they were.......

 

[Spudlet]

How old is she, and how does you react when she runs off with the toy? Do you chase her or anything like that?

You can clicker train a retrieve quite easily, which is what I did, by breaking it down into stages and rewarding each stage. So step one might be just to get her to touch the toy with her nose, the get her to hold it in her mouth, then move it a bit further away and encourage her back to you with it. If you google, there are some instructions on the Gundog Club website on how to do this.

At first I didn't bother to get Henry to wait for to be sent, I just let him run straight in after the dummies because I really wanted to build as much enthusiasm in him as possible about retrieving. We worked on steadiness later on, when his retrieve was really well established.

She sounds maybe a bit bored of it, so maybe you could also try a new special toy that she will want to chase and play with and use it only for that purpose? Just do maybe one a day or even less often than that, so it becomes a special game again. Also, encouage her if she picks anything up round the house, like socks etc, don't ever tell her not to pick things up (unless they're dangerous, in which case of course take them off her quickly but gently, but still don't tell her off).

Good luck, I am sure this can be overcome

 

[Cedars]

Ok. Basically, I ask because our lab pup was very similar, started off retrieving but then would either run for it and not pick it up or just look at you as if to say "you threw that too far, not going". You may know on here shes recently had surgery for hip dysplasia.

Not for one minute saying she's unwell but you may want to look in to whether she might be in a little bit of pain that would stop her from wanting to run.

Of course, she may just be being a little terror.....! And the gundog people will be along shortly. xxxx

 

[Charlie007]

Thankies for the advice so far!! I don't think she is in any sort of pain. I have just checked the paperwork that came with her and both parents have been tested. Perhaps she is bored! She does seem to have the attention span of a gnat!! We take her on a Monday evening to pup training, she is just over 4 months old. The first 2 times she went she was fab, the third time couldn't do a thing with her! I am going to look for a dummie for her (any recommendations?) as her special toy, so perhaps this would help? We tried clicker training with our JRT. One click and she was gone!! Scared stiff of it! Would we beable to combine clicker training with 'normal' training (home work from training class)? Thanks again

 

[Spudlet]

You can use clicker training wherever, just make sure you charge the clicker properly (loads of instructions online for this). It doesn't work for every dog, anymore than any training method does, but it is worth a try.

You can get puppy dummies, but I would use a soft toy instead as this will be really easy for her to grasp. Also, when she is a bit older you can start using dummies more formally, as she will know the difference between a toy and a dummy.

She is only a baby, I wouldn't worry about retrieving yet at all to be honest. Just have lots of fun with her and keep retrieving as a lovely game.

http://www.horseandcountry.tv/episode/howard-kirby-gun-dog-guy

Have a look here, he is working with a tiny lab puppy. V cute!

 

[Charlie007]

Wow Spudlet what a great vid! We can but dream Fern will turn out like that!! Would you carry on going to these pup training classes or wait till she is a bit older and go to gun dog classes? We just want to give give ourselves and Fern the best possible start!

 

[Spudlet]

I didn't have Henry from a pup, but if I had I would have done puppy classes as I think they are great socialisation and will get her used to working while there are other dogs about right from the start.

Mind you I am not a gundog expert, I only know what has worked for us so far

 

[Elle123]

she may just be having a bit of a rebellious. My lab and golden retriever went through a similar phase. They'd look at you as if to say, you threw it, you get it!!!

Found that squeaky toys did the trick. Squeak it and get them excited then throw it and mine bounded after it and loads of praise when they got back

But they aren't working dogs but thought it might give you some idea of how they can change

Elle

 

[Charlie007]

A squeaky toy could be good, just for retrieving. All our other dogs we have just trained along the way and they have all been great, but it just seems that you have to treat a gun dog slightly differently from the word go!! I think we will give her a break from retrieving and find an exciting toy and try again in a little while! Thanks again for all your really helpful advice. I keep telling myself she will make a great PET if we fail miserably (albeit and expensive one!!

 

[Brownmare]

I may get shot down by gundog people for this but my whippet would always fetch the toy then run off with it so I attached it to a long line (or several bits of baler twine knotted together ) and threw it then I could reel it back with him attached lol. It also worked for when he ran past the toy i could make it move and he would pounce on it.

having said that it may be totally the wrong thing to teach a potential gundog....

 

[Charlie007]

Thanks Brownmare! Great idea! I have no idea if this is right or wrong for gundogs but may have to resort to it in the future!!

 

[Spudlet]

The only thing that would worry me about that is that she might learn to grip too hard and become hard mouthed. That said, I used to attach one end of my longline to the dummy and the other to Henry at the very beginning outdoors, so I could reel the dummy in if he lost it and reel him in if he tried to bugger off with it!

Like this:

Nil desperadum, you'll get there, Henry had nothing for the first 18 months of his life and then nothing gundoggy for the next twelve months, and we are getting there, slowly but surely!

 

[Alec Swan]

There can be a number of reasons why a puppy which is happy to retrieve, suddenly stops doing so.

A/ He's had too much, too soon. 16 week old puppies should get 3 or 4 retrieves a week, and that's all. Generally though, when they've become bored, they will run off with the dummy and play with it, they don't generally just pack up.

B/ The most likely reason, I suspect, is when the puppy has picked up a prized, valuable or fragile possession of ours, and we then shout at it, or move towards it quickly, to remove our property from its mouth, then it will either grip more tightly, which we don't want, or it will spit out what it saw as a "dummy", and then think better of carrying anything back to us again!

I would strongly council against ever attaching a line to a dummy, by way of getting the dog to bring it back. The most likely thing that will happen is that the retrieve will turn into a tug-of-war. A cardinal sin.

At the age of 20 weeks, I would expect a puppy to go to his bed when he's told, come when called, sit though only for a few seconds and more or less walk to heal. Few will agree with me, but I always teach a dog to walk to heal off the lead, and before he goes on it, though this wouldn''t work, perhaps, with road work. He would also have learnt not to jump up against me.

When he has the odd retrieve, or two, then I would hold him, between my legs, with one hand under his chin, and when he starts to really enjoy his retrieving, then all dummies would be gently lobbed out of sight. That will teach him two things. Firstly and from an early age to mark game, and secondly to use his nose. Apart from the first few weeks, then I never give puppies a sighted dummy. The discipline of sitting quietly and waiting to be sent needs to wait until a puppy is generally 7 or 8 months of age, that would, however, depend upon the dog.

I've seen so many young dogs ruined with too much discipline and too much work from too early an age, and in my youth I too made that mistake! It takes months to make a dog, and minutes to ruin them. An old adage, and as true today, as when it was first uttered.

It sounds, Charlie007, as if something has gone very wrong for you, or your puppy. In your shoes, I'd do no more retrieving work for another 2 or 3 months. Give him a break. He knows how to retrieve, but chooses not to. At 16 weeks I honestly believe that most puppies need to see life as a game. Give him time to put behind him what ever it is that's upset him. It's so tempting when we come up against a barrier to persevere, isn't it? When we do that, then we generally only make matters worse.

Good luck.

Alec.

 

[Ravenwood]

Only skim read all the replies so far - sorry!

Am I right in thinking that this dog is only four months old? And wanted to use as a gundog?

Firstly then, if the above is correct, why are you in such a rush?

To start my dogs off, I simply roll a tennis ball down the hallway (with all the other doors closed), the puppy naturally goes for the ball and brings it back in such a confined space = lots of praise

For the dog that isn't interested in dummies (such as my spaniel) then you have to make it really exciting! I would throw a dummy for him and then run and hide in the rushes - he would get the dummy and come and find me - thank God no one was looking as I was on my back encouraging my spaniel to bring the dummy to me!!!

Make it exciting - what do you use to make your dog retrieve? tennis ball, dummy, rabbit skin? Have you tried hiding the dummy and going with him to search for it (blind retrieve) - they love this when they find it - its makes them so proud of themselves

 

[Scranny_Ann]

There can be a number of reasons why a puppy which is happy to retrieve, suddenly stops doing so.

A/ He's had too much, too soon. 16 week old puppies should get 3 or 4 retrieves a week, and that's all. Generally though, when they've become bored, they will run off with the dummy and play with it, they don't generally just pack up.

B/ The most likely reason, I suspect, is when the puppy has picked up a prized, valuable or fragile possession of ours, and we then shout at it, or move towards it quickly, to remove our property from its mouth, then it will either grip more tightly, which we don't want, or it will spit out what it saw as a "dummy", and then think better of carrying anything back to us again!

I would strongly council against ever attaching a line to a dummy, by way of getting the dog to bring it back. The most likely thing that will happen is that the retrieve will turn into a tug-of-war. A cardinal sin.

At the age of 20 weeks, I would expect a puppy to go to his bed when he's told, come when called, sit though only for a few seconds and more or less walk to heal. Few will agree with me, but I always teach a dog to walk to heal off the lead, and before he goes on it, though this wouldn''t work, perhaps, with road work. He would also have learnt not to jump up against me.

When he has the odd retrieve, or two, then I would hold him, between my legs, with one hand under his chin, and when he starts to really enjoy his retrieving, then all dummies would be gently lobbed out of sight. That will teach him two things. Firstly and from an early age to mark game, and secondly to use his nose. Apart from the first few weeks, then I never give puppies a sighted dummy. The discipline of sitting quietly and waiting to be sent needs to wait until a puppy is generally 7 or 8 months of age, that would, however, depend upon the dog.

I've seen so many young dogs ruined with too much discipline and too much work from too early an age, and in my youth I too made that mistake! It takes months to make a dog, and minutes to ruin them. An old adage, and as true today, as when it was first uttered.

It sounds, Charlie007, as if something has gone very wrong for you, or your puppy. In your shoes, I'd do no more retrieving work for another 2 or 3 months. Give him a break. He knows how to retrieve, but chooses not to. At 16 weeks I honestly believe that most puppies need to see life as a game. Give him time to put behind him what ever it is that's upset him. It's so tempting when we come up against a barrier to persevere, isn't it? When we do that, then we generally only make matters worse.

Good luck.

Alec.

^^ This EXACTLY!