Laid back or shut down?

[baran]

Colleague has bought her first horse. It is 18 years old and was advertised as ideal confidence-giver for novice owner. Things have been going really well and she has even been out on a couple of short hacks solo. However, some useful person at her yard has said the horse is not laid back but shut down. As it becomes more confident in its new environment, the problems will start. She is understandably upset by this and I don't know how to reassure her. I have met the horse once out on a hack. I am not sure if it had ever seen a carriage before but after a bit of snorting was happy to stand while we had a brief chat.
What behaviour would lead you to think a horse was shut down?

 

[Landcruiser]

They have a "look." Something in the eye and head carriage. If I were her I'd suggest your friend tells the person at the yard to wind their neck in. Even if the horse were to be shut down, it doesn't automatically mean problems as it gains confidence.

 

[southerncomfort]

What absolute nonsense! Sounds like she's hit gold with a fantastic confidence giver. Tell her to ignore the negative Nancy and enjoy her lovely new horse.

P.s I know I'm always banging on about him but Karl Greenwood has a fair bit to say about how to deal with the fence leaners at the yard!

 

[cauda equina]

I'd think about its general demeanour
A horse can be non-spooky but still alert and interested which I'd call laid back
Or it can be mentally trying not to be there, not interested in its surroundings and not engaging with its handlers, which I'd call shut down

 

[nagblagger]

Jealousy from the other livery springs to mind.

 

[baran]

I'd think about its general demeanour
A horse can be non-spooky but still alert and interested which I'd call laid back
Or it can be mentally trying not to be there, not interested in its surroundings and not engaging with its handlers, which I'd call shut down

Thanks. I would say from our brief meeting it is definitely alert and interested. My groom got down in case the rider needed any help as she was looking a bit nervous and the horse had a good sniff round him and his pockets! I will pass all this on to her.

 

[BBP]

I don’t think it’s nonsense at all to recognise that a horse may be shut down. Many people don’t recognise it. And shut down isn’t a terrible thing sometimes, it’s a horses way of coping with the situation it is in. However, If it has bright eyes and is alert, curious and interactive with its environment, I’d say it’s fine. If it is relatively unresponsive to stimulus and appears to just accept things being done to it as it has never had a voice, then I would say it is possibly shut down. Whether that is a problem or not is a different question.

 

[Birker2020]

I had the misfortune to view a shut down horse when I was on the search for a horse to purchase last year. It was a WB and was cross tied already when we arrived. When we approached it just stared straight in front of it, didn't flinch or move or show any indication it had even felt my hands over its body, I caressed its head but it showed no reaction, I blew down its nostrils, it just stared ahead, I patted its neck, it just stared ahead.

Partner went to stroke its face in exactly the same place as I had just done and it moved its head and flinched then. We drew our own conclusions.

The horse had no muscle mass at all. I had no doubt that the horse would jump anything as claimed by the woman who showed us the horse on behalf of the owner but I sure as hell wasn't going to sit on it, apart from the dramatic muscle loss it also stuck its hind foot out at an alarming angle and it seemed a pointless exercise.

I'd never really come across a shut down horse before and my heart ached for it, but I couldn't justify taking a punt on it, especially at £10k. I often wonder what became of it.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Colleague has bought her first horse. It is 18 years old and was advertised as ideal confidence-giver for novice owner. Things have been going really well and she has even been out on a couple of short hacks solo. However, some useful person at her yard has said the horse is not laid back but shut down. As it becomes more confident in its new environment, the problems will start. She is understandably upset by this and I don't know how to reassure her. I have met the horse once out on a hack. I am not sure if it had ever seen a carriage before but after a bit of snorting was happy to stand while we had a brief chat.
What behaviour would lead you to think a horse was shut down?

I'd say a horse was shut down if it was zombie-like, mechanical, uninterested in the world around it & not responsive to your voice or touch. So this one definitely sounds laid back but that's a very nasty thing to do to a novice owner. She'll have it at the back of her mind for a long time. Dreadful!
Telling her the woman is a horrible idiot will go so far but the only thing that will really lay it to rest is encouraging & supporting her to continue exploring the world so they both get more confident in the new environment together.

 

[eahotson]

I had the misfortune to view a shut down horse when I was on the search for a horse to purchase last year. It was a WB and was cross tied already when we arrived. When we approached it just stared straight in front of it, didn't flinch or move or show any indication it had even felt my hands over its body, I caressed its head but it showed no reaction, I blew down its nostrils, it just stared ahead, I patted its neck, it just stared ahead.

Partner went to stroke its face in exactly the same place as I had just done and it moved its head and flinched then. We drew our own conclusions.

The horse had no muscle mass at all. I had no doubt that the horse would jump anything as claimed by the woman who showed us the horse on behalf of the owner but I sure as hell wasn't going to sit on it, apart from the dramatic muscle loss it also stuck its hind foot out at an alarming angle and it seemed a pointless exercise.

I'd never really come across a shut down horse before and my heart ached for it, but I couldn't justify taking a punt on it, especially at £10k. I often wonder what became of it.

Very sad.

 

[Birker2020]

Very sad.

Incredibly, it had quite an effect on me, I still think about it now. I just hope it found kindness and love in whatever home it ended up.

 

[Fjord]

How horrible for the new owner. If the horse was interested in snuffling round pockets for treats then it sounds like he is just really chilled! I hope she doesn't get too upset by the comment and can enjoy her laud back horse.

 

[J&S]

I think a "shut down" horse can "wake up" with some dramatic effects (perhaps what the lady at the yard meant?). I am sure your friend's horse is just a nice, well educated and confident person.

 

[smolmaus]

I had a friend say to me that she thought Sadie was a bit shut down when she arrived with me. I can see what she meant and she said it with kindness after the fact, like "oh I thought for a while it couldn't be normal how unphased she is by everything, I'm glad she is showing more of her cheeky personality now". It did still make me worry, even though it was said in the most gentle way possible and we can both see that it wasn't really the case, she just freezes when she spooks rather than running.

Genuine worry or concern doesn't seem to be the intent here though and it is a terrible thing to say flippantly to a first time owner. The horse may well change a bit over the next few months as he gets more confident in himself in his new home, as many of them do, and his poor owner will convince herself its because he was shut down.

I find that groundwork games are really good when I want to see the Real Sadie. We do poles at liberty, play "follow me" and touch targets in exchange for snacks and scratches. If your colleague n proof that her boy is just laid back it could be good for them both to just have a play where he only has to engage if/when he wants to.

 

[dorsetladette]

I don't think its any of the other liveries business to be honest. From your explanation of your first interaction with the horse I wouldn't say it was shut down if its snorting at your carriage.

sounds like your friend has got herself a real diamond there and the other livery is a little bit jealous. Maybe your friends new horse was peacefully having a dose in the sunshine while being tied up on the yard and the other liveries horse won't stand still while tied up.

P.s I know I'm always banging on about him but Karl Greenwood has a fair bit to say about how to deal with the fence leaners at the yard!

I've just started reading a Karl Greenwood book and can't put it down. It's so logical the way he explains how our brains process things.

 

[MuffettMischief]

I don't think its any of the other liveries business to be honest. From your explanation of your first interaction with the horse I wouldn't say it was shut down if its snorting at your carriage.

sounds like your friend has got herself a real diamond there and the other livery is a little bit jealous. Maybe your friends new horse was peacefully having a dose in the sunshine while being tied up on the yard and the other liveries horse won't stand still while tied up.



I've just started reading a Karl Greenwood book and can't put it down. It's so logical the way he explains how our brains process things.

not heard of this guy but am interested after a couple of posts I’ve seen about him. What book is this please?

 

[LEC]

I think a lot of new horses when moved are slightly shut down. I always think it takes time for their personality and character to come out and is also of course why a lot of people have issues after 6 months….
A lot of riding school horses are shut down. Just how they have adapted to life. It must be exhausting for horses to deal with nervous people so can see why they become shut down as a result.

 

[Peglo]

When I went to view my TB I think she was shut down (that or a bit drugged but I’m more convinced shut down) there was nothing about her. Me and my friend jumped into her stable over a wall and she didn’t even turn to look at us. She was pretty bland to ride too. I was young and naive so didn’t think much of it. After a few days out on grass (think she was in her stall 24/7 before) and a play with the ponies she soon came out of her shell….. a lot ?

I agree with above. It sounds like your friend has gotten a lovely first horse and hope she can forget the comment and they have lots of fun together.

 

[dorsetladette]

not heard of this guy but am interested after a couple of posts I’ve seen about him. What book is this please?

This one - he just has a bit of a way with words

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Control-Your-Stress-Enjoy-Horse-ebook/dp/B07K2WFXXQ

 

[JGC]

This one - he just has a bit of a way with words

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Control-Your-Stress-Enjoy-Horse-ebook/dp/B07K2WFXXQ

Thanks for this, it's on Kindle Unlimited too, so I don't have to pay extra (very good news at the moment).

 

[meleeka]

My cob was shut down when I got him. The previous but one owner mentioned his cheeky character, but I couldn’t see any personality at all. He was an angel to hack and did everything I asked.

It took a good year for him to show me who he really was and truly relax. He was still an angel to hack though. He just did it with more of a smile on his face.

Your friend would do well to deal with the horse in front of her and ignore all the negative Nellies.

 

[JGC]

On the shutdown, the horse in my avatar was shutdown when ridden (she came from a riding school) but not on the ground (bargy even on the ground).

She would just plod round, not interested in anything. As we got her more comfortable (her back was very sore due to an ill-fitting saddle and her hocks and a shoulder were sore from compensating), she got more expressive when ridden, interested in what's going on, sometimes a bit snorty, but she's still a lovely confidence giver!

I couldn't leave her there once I'd seen her, but it was the best 1500 euros I ever spent.

 

[m.l.c coloured]

I brought a little cob for my son,he was literally dead in the eyes.I have never seen such a sad, depressed little thing,only time you would get a reaction from him was if you moved suddenly and God forbid you went near him with a sweeping brush he would shake with fear.i found out he had been through 5 homes in 6weeks and was apparently dangerous.he had severe ulcers,sore back,tight poll and teeth like razors and what looked like remains of blood blisters from a bit.it took around 6months for him to finally become a "normal" horse and 3 years later he is the most loving, gentle,happy and sometimes absolute shTe !