lamanitic dilemma update. thoughts needed!

BSJAlove

BSJAlove

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ok as some of you know, one of our horses has gone down with laminitus after 5 years of keeping it away. before anyone lectures me, we made one mistake in 5 years and we've paid the price so dont make us feel any worse then we already do.

anyways. he has been kept in for the past 2 days, and after a walk about and a trot up and some tests, he was given the all clear. so he went back out on his starvation paddock for one night and day. we went up this evening and he was pottery on his near fore so hes back in the stable.

however were in a huge dilemma. he HATES being in. he gets super stressed and he has already cut the top of his eye being in. he becomes rude on the ground and bites and kicks which he has NEVER done in his life. we don't want him to get another attack through stress. we can turn him out, however he was on a tiny starvation paddock before and it still triggered an attack.

we're at our wits end. hes in his stable at the moment, and were going down at 10pm to turn him out on his starvation paddock. he will be brought in at 6.30am tomorrow.

we've asked the vet for more bute as we have ran out but they're being so rude and saying that they need to re-evaluate his condition and do more tests before giving us some, which they have never done in the past. they have always given us bute when needed and we cant afford more call outs. we've had them out so many times lately.

i just want to know your thoughts and ideas about other ways to keep him. we are absolutely gutted as we've kept it away for so long and now its back. its so upsetting seeing him screaming and box walking in his stable but we dont want to risk it getting worse. hes getting older now and it will take longer for him to recover. anyway ill stop rambling. ideas and thoughts welcome!!!
 
Have to say when my pony has a laminitis attack she is kept in for at least 2 weeks surprised vet said to turn him out after 2 day, but agree box walking isn't going to help him either. My vet has in the past prescribed sedalin to encourage pony to lie down, is it worth asking your vet for some (although maybe not if he is being unhelpful). Not sure what other tests the vet could want to do, unless they are thinking it might be Cushings related. The only other thing I can suggest is turning him out with a grazing muzzle on, so he is outside but not able to eat much.
 
thanks for speedy reply. we've tried the muzzle but stupid pony gets it off every time.

problem with pony is he hates being in the stable so much, when the vet came down to assess him, he was wired and strides out of the stable so lameness is difficult to detect. especially as he is only (at the moment) a mild case so hes only slightly lame. i told vet this but she was adamant he was ok and ''no horse with laminitus would be moving like he is''. to be honest, were thinking of changin vets as they have been utterly useless to us lately!!
 
dont beat yourself up. . . I have a 21yr old eventer that got it from the frost 3 years ago when he was lean and v v fit!!!. . .He didnt respond to drugs until given an anti-toxin jab that cost me 600 quid!!!!

But. . .now he has gone from being out for 45 mins a day to out 24/7 on a v v bald small starvation paddock and has soaked hay and laminaze (double dose). It really does work, he starts to 'pulse' if the laminaze is reduced, so I'm sticking with it all year round.

Good luck, I had a sheep (Baa-bar-raa) in the stable with him, it didnt stop him bucking but did give him a target to aim for and Baa-bar-raa learnt to get out the way!!
 
Yes, change vets - or get a second opinion at least. Is it possible to put him out in a very small area with no grass at all? Is there a portion of his starvation paddock you could cordon off to reduce the area?
 
sadly i dont own a sheep and if i had, i think pony would have beaten the crap out of him!! eek.

thing is, our money situation is difficult and we really cant afford to keep getting the vet out every week or sometimes more. we may have to loan this one out to ease money situations (if anyone has followed my previous posts) as a quite hack for nervous rider. we really dont want too. this attack has come at the worst possible time for us!!

we could corner off a smaller bit of field for him, however hes only on a tiny bit at the moment, he would literally have no room to move more then a few feet each way. were talking about it now and maybe its something else other then the grass that has caused the attack???
 
I have a pony who got laminitis after 5 years with us and keeping it away. i know how you feel, i was so upset, and yes it was jsut one mistake. He is ok in his stable and then he got my big mare in beside him with a foot abcess. 2 invalids lol
I think that i would change vets if they are being so awkward. you know your own pony. He can't be in terrible pain or he wouldn't box walk, like you say, he is just slightly lame so not in huge pain. when you say it is a starvation paddock, how starvation is it. could you do a close mow in a smaller patch and give him less area.
I had sedalin for my wee one initially, but i don't think it would be able to be used for a few weeks.. I hope things improve for you and him.
 
Could you speak to your vet and let them know your worry about the fees? They might be able to give you extra time to pay maybe? After all the welfare of the pony should come first.
Maybe he should be on acp to calm him down and help the laminitis.
Also maybe speak to your farrier, they can be a great help with laminitis.
I know what a horrible disaese this is and what a worry it is trying to do the best thing.
I really would speak to one of the partners at the vets and explain the situation. Good luck
 
it's thought now that starvation paddocks are worse 4 laminitic horses as the new grass has high levals of fructose & sugars. i think they say its better2 graze on poor quality grazingxx
 
Is there any way you can fence (or gate) off a bit outside his stable? We did this with ours when he has lami many years ago (and also HATED being stabled) - we just left his stable door wide open so he could stand inside on deep bedding or be outside in the sun (literally pen off a bit same size as stable) - we had hardcore outside his stable so it was fine, you might have concrete (whichever is fine). If you cant do this, then Id probably put some straw on the ground in his starvation paddock so he cant eat the grass (or make it much smaller)?
 
I know someone who kept there horse in a large pen but on concrete, could it be possible to do this? that way he wouldnt be in but wouldn't be able to eat grass? you could give him hay etc? Good luck, i know its horrible when your horse has laminitus!
 
we have concrete out side our stable, and our stables are no where near the fields, which we think is the reason he goes loony.

we can put him on a concrete pen as its to hard and it could risk another attack. its a chance were not willing to make at this point. thanks though!

dont know what make the grazing muzzle is as we tried it 5 years ago but it wasn't a cheap one but he broke it within 2 days.

his starvation paddock is 20 x 20. we think maybe the attack was caused by something else other then grass. other then hard ground and stress and grass, what else triggers lami?
 
Sorry to hear that your horse has laminitis
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It is a horrible disease.

The best thing to do is not to let them have short, rich grass. Do you have a very small ( I mean small) area with some long almost hay grass? If so, and he won't be stabled I would put him on this.

Alternatively, you may have to sedate to get him to stay in the stable. Often laminitics can "go over" certain drugs as adrenalin kicks in, so don't let them tell you he is cured!!

Laminitics, even on a very, very slight case are normally kept in for three weeks. Ten days of medication, ten days free and moving normally.

If your vet won't give you more bute or ACP/sedalin...change the vet!! You pay for the service and you know your horse better than anyone else.

Stress can cause laminitis, and some mares get laminitis after foaling. Grass, stress from working on hard surfaces, cushings, all sorts of triggers can flare up an attack.

A really brilliant place to find out information is the Laminitis Trust, which will give you lots of details, and advice.

I hope that your horse is better soon
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ok. come to this decision.

will go up at 10pm to turn him out on his paddock and will bring him in during the day with another horse (although this doesn't stop the box walking and stressing but it calms him a little). i will then buy my 2nd grazing muzzle too, just a cheap one though just incase. and im going to change my vet tomorrow and book appointment. i shall find some money somewhere for second opinion and bute etc. thanks again, really appreciated!

thanks very much for all the advice. ive taken it all into account.
 
Muzzles have come a long way in the last 5 yrs...may be worth a try
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In that your pony came sound and then went footy after being turned out suggests that it is likely to be diet related laminitis but you really need to get your vet to check it out.

How old is the pony...could it be cushings related making the pony particulaly prone?

Do you have another pony that could be kept on the yard out side your ponies stable to keep her quiet? Box rest really is the best thing but obviously not if the pony is gonna go crazy
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If all else fails I would make her paddock into stable sized paddock
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Not alot different to her being in one
 
if you have an area on the yard you could put her but its on concrete, could you borrow some rubber matting temporarily to cushion the surface?
i have about 3 stables worth in the garage but youre miles away!
 
I have a little pony with chronic laminitis, I followed all the advise from the laminitis clinic. She was so lame she was on rest for weeks and weeks.

I have found she is more lame if kept in because she gets very stiff and she doesn't drink. I give her warm water and epsom salts which helped. Also my French vet recommends turn-out of our sand menage so we tape off a section for her. That gives her interest and a soft surface/
 
I hope this gets to you before you go to the yard.

I really feel for you, it's horrible when they get laminitis. I think I read every website, article, piece of research about laminitis when my boy got it, so much so I think I could do a degree on it! I was also (still am a bit) living on a shoe string. Even the thought of buying 8 bales of shavings and the first vet call out out cleaned out my bank account at the time!

I personally would make sure he is on SOFT ground and NO grass. If you can keep him in the stable, make the bed as deep as possible and right up to the door. Can you get bedding from other stables if it's not needed? Even the difference between a soft bed then hard dry paddock may have caused the hobbling.

I was tempted to ACP mine because as soon as he was a little bit better he kept kicking the door. I carpeted the door and front walls (cheap scavenged bits of rugs and carpets!). If you are not keen on speaking to your vet maybe try a feed calmer (Horse First Relax Me is really good, or there are some oral shots I've heard are good). I know it's not cheap, but he may settle into a routine of being in?? Maybe speak to a knowledgable person at the counter if there is one, to make sure they won't harm laminitics.

Make sure he has plenty of soaked hay (I soaked mine over night, some soak for 24hrs) which should also keep him occupied. Do not starve him. You have to keep his gut working because this is where the toxins start and need the fibre to flush them through and make the gut 'work'.

If you really really can't keep him in, is your starvation paddock in a corner at all? Can you put some bedding, shavings or something on the ground to soften it and make it like a outside stable?!? I would probably make the paddock smaller than 20x20m, but however small you make it the grass will still be growing.

I would try again with the muzzle, my boy HATED his but so many other horses do get used to them. Have you tried putting a headcollar on over the top?

You didn't say how old he was? If old then IMO I would rather a little stiffness from being stabled over walking out on hard ground to loosen up.

You can only do what you think is best and I hope you don't think I'm telling you what to do. However, I would really doubt any vet that was requesting a trot up after 2 days.

My first actions would be to change vets and talk about them about ACP because if he can stay in the stable and be calm he'll be much better off, IMO.
 
Horses can get Laminits from a number or combination of different things such as Stress, Cushings Disease, Insulin Intollerance, Fructans in Grass, Emerging Encysted Small Red Worms, Infections and Stress.

Laminitis is a medical emergency and veterinary supervision is essential however much it costs I am afraid.

A horse with Laminitis should be kept in a stable with very thick bedding and rubber frog supports fitted by your vet. It should receive a small amount of well soaked hay (1 hour at least) every 4 hours to keep its digestive tract functioning.

Painkillers such as Finadyne or Bute may be prescribed by your vet to relieve the pain.

Blood may be taken to try and establish what caused the Laminitis.

Your vet man want to take x rays to check for rotation or sinking of the pedal bone.
 

I am amazed that the vet hasn't dosed him up on ACP while on box rest with a deep bed. ACP not only allows for a very successful, stress free and sleepy box rest, but it is also hugely successful at treating laminitis as it opens up the blood vessels allowing more bloodflow and quicker healing to the laminiae.
 
the pony i look after got lamanitus again last week, he is an elderly pony which has had it basicaly all his life but due to his arthritis he cant stay in, he also has very bad teeth so cant eat his hay so gets too thin when kept in. his attack was mild so is bk out now but i would say it might be a good idea to tape of an area in ur school(if u have one) s there no grass but hes not in. if he has to stay in maybe give him lots of toys and stuff to do.
 
Sedalin. Obviously calms the horse down but has the added bonus of increasing blood flow to the extremities. I'm surprised your vet didn't prescribe it from the outset.
 
did he have xrays?i am very suprised that after just 2 days the vet is willing to clear him- the bute in the system will still be high and masking any lameness!
is it a horse vet?!
i would keep him on a double fenced small (2 stable sized) area of field, dig up the grass and buy a load of sand or bark to cover the ground completely, so he isnt stressed but also cannot eat any grass.
and give him only soaked hay.
 
I have to be quick as only have 2 mins, but you can get special pads called Solemates which would really help to cushion the feet and would then enable you to put him in a stable sized paddock, so that he doesn't have to be on the hard ground. These can be put inside boots (Old Mac G2s are the easiest) and really do help to support the foot and protect it from the hard ground. Have a look at www.aepsupplies.co.uk and they sell them on there. Will try and get back on later to elaborate further!
 
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