Lameness experts interested in your detective help!

Billyooo

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Hi All - this is for anyone here who has had a horse who appears to be very so very subtly intermittently lame read on for more! She is a show jumper 6 years old.
Mare can go for months and appear to be fine but something is niggling me still about her. So when you read these bear in mind there can be months between getting these signs from her and have had a lot of vet checks! But these are the clues!
1) Easier to spot on the lunge and only seen in trot when the horse flexes away from the handler, ie when she pushes her right shoulder in towards you and flexes away from you. When she drops head and neck and relaxes on the circle horse then appears to be sound. Please note this is not often and I only see it in few strides now and again.
2) This I think is the important one: When cantering right she puts her head very low to floor and shakes it from side to side if on lunge when she starts cantering. She DOES NOT do this to left ever. Had teeth, physio and massage no one telling me any problem. Chiro diagnosed a poll problem but mare still does this do who knows?
3) Points right front leg at rest very occasionally but the problem is not thought to be in that front leg - in fact on lunge the time I and vet saw she was lame in front it was defo the opposite front leg if anything, but aware could be diagonal hind limb that is the problem? Bute trial made no difference to this by way.
4) Is hard to tell if lame in front or behind - sometimes seems to be front and at other times would swear is a subtle hind end lameness. Vet has also seen this. Defo does not show in a straight line even on hard surface.
5) Ruled out so far are kissing spines, scans of ligs and tendons revealed nothing, Xrays of front legs (not done shoulders?) reveal nothing, Xrays of hind limbs up to and including stifles reveal nothing.
6) Horse brave and happy to jump and makes a great shape and very scopey but can occasionally buck a few strides after the fence when first starts jumping but she is an exuberant, sparky, scopey mare anyway.
7) In canter ridden is sometimes reluctant to go into canter but is quite a nappy horse sometimes to her mates, so is she not cantering because of pain or because she would like to go back to field. Time of day does seem to play a factor in this ie nearer tea time more like likely to do this so is this a red herring? Hacks out really well in all paces never naps into canter or gallop out on hack so again could be an arena thing? Once in canter though there are no kickbacks, no particular squintness, no bunching up of body and absolutely no reluctance to go and jump.
8) Not a marish mare at all in fact hardly know when she is in season so thinking not hormonal, ovaries etc - had that in mares before.
9 ) Not checked for ulcers as absolutely does not look the type going on condition and lifestyle but open to suggestions.
Thanks for getting through long post - really interested in hearing if you have actually had anything similar in own horse - and if you ever managed to track down the cause :)
Am going to send her for more tests after corona to check shoulders poss SI? etc. Will add that I am a really experienced owner of many years, had, compted and bred a lot of horses and this particular one is under usual great vet care.
Over last 18 months Vet has once seen this mare lame in front once and once lame behind and several times he has seen no lameness - even under flexing - so just wondering if anyone else has had a case like this - I think that the lowering and shaking of head to right is significant myself.
This mare rides great 99% of the time but have you ever had one horse that just niggles that something is not right. That's where I am and just really interested in others' experience with anything similar. Thanks :)
 

chaps89

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Does your vet practice have a lameness locator? For ever so subtle issues I'd quite possibly start with a lameness locator and see what the flags up.
It doesn't sound pathological but has she had a set of bloods run just incase anything is a bit odd?
It sounds like you've ruled out most things apart from neck, shoulder, sacro? Given the chiro found poll tension/soreness(?) I'd either maybe start there or work out what might be related/could cause poll issues.
Has she had a really thorough dental under sedation, maybe by another dentist/vet?
 

Billyooo

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Does your vet practice have a lameness locator? For ever so subtle issues I'd quite possibly start with a lameness locator and see what the flags up.
It doesn't sound pathological but has she had a set of bloods run just incase anything is a bit odd?
It sounds like you've ruled out most things apart from neck, shoulder, sacro? Given the chiro found poll tension/soreness(?) I'd either maybe start there or work out what might be related/could cause poll issues.
Has she had a really thorough dental under sedation, maybe by another dentist/vet?

Hi Thanks for reply - she has had her teeth done by both one of best equine dentists and a vet under sedation.
Have not run bloods - good idea will chat to vet
Chiro booked in again after chorona - so not sure when she will be able to come back
Lameness locator good idea also
thanks :)
 

ester

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I was going to say lameness locator
Tom Beech/equivalent
and/or possibly with very good feel up top?
iirc ulcer issues to tend to show up more on right rein.
 

be positive

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I had one here that was not lame but had a few minor issues that pointed towards ulcers, none showed when scoped, he was at times a bit sore in the shoulder and under the saddle area when seen by a physio although he responded well to treatment, I got the vet to xray his feet as the starting point, vet was not expecting to find anything as he was totally sound, he had counter rotation in both, which surprised the vet as it was fairly significant despite externally the feet and limbs seeming to be well balanced, I would always start with the feet, unless there is an obvious area of concern, and that time I was proved right, it saved a lot of diagnostics being done, the vet would probably have started with xraying the back as that is where the discomfort was.
 

Billyooo

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I had one here that was not lame but had a few minor issues that pointed towards ulcers, none showed when scoped, he was at times a bit sore in the shoulder and under the saddle area when seen by a physio although he responded well to treatment, I got the vet to xray his feet as the starting point, vet was not expecting to find anything as he was totally sound, he had counter rotation in both, which surprised the vet as it was fairly significant despite externally the feet and limbs seeming to be well balanced, I would always start with the feet, unless there is an obvious area of concern, and that time I was proved right, it saved a lot of diagnostics being done, the vet would probably have started with xraying the back as that is where the discomfort was.
Thanks for that all of her feet have been xrayed and clean as a whistle - thanks though :)
 

ycbm

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I would xray the neck and if your finances allow put her through a whole body scintigraph.

.
 

shergar

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Thermal imaging may be useful ,we had a friend with a camera at the yard he asked if anyone would like the horse /ponies looked at ,our pony had a lump on his side so thought we would get him looked at , the lump showed no heat /inflammation ,as he was looking at the whole pony he said one back hoof was showing a problem ,we said the pony was not lame ,the friends reply was he will be ,sure enough four weeks later he was .As far as I can remember you have to clean out the horses feet and stand on concrete prior to being looked at ,no sedation is needed and the thermographer does mot need to touch or examine your horse .
 

Marmaduke

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I am not a vet but definitely second the use of equianalysis or similar lameness locator at vets to try and narrow it down. Scintigraphy also can be very useful if you can afford it and especially if xrays not showing anything. Had this done which showed up TMJ hotspots (horse was tilting head in all paces). Vet surprised. Stifles also can xray fine but as such a large joint you cant really tell what is going on without going in endoscopically so again scintigraphy may help.
You say your horse looks lame when flexing to outside (left?) on lunge. If consistently doing this rather than just momentarily it may suggest stiffness along the left side, possibly not as much movement from left hind. This might correspond to same with right canter and pushing off from left hind. If only when starting off it could be a stiffness that works itself through, but is still there. My experience with hind limb lameness is the use of the neck to counterbalance and using front limbs to pull along. Ive had one lame behind (bilaterally) but also lame on one front. Both showed up using the equianalysis at vets. Corners in arenas tend to emphasise issues in my experience which may explain why hacking seems fine. Do you get the same issues ridden? It may simply be a tight muscle or ligament higher up that just needs to heal, which sounds like where you are going. You are making progress even if it doesnt feel like it!
 
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