Lameness in the hind leg and how long to box rest for

[PONYPC]

Our 11 yo Connie woke up pretty crippled, having not been ridden for three days and turned out for the last two. After an initial 3 weeks box rest and 20 minutes walker he came back to less than one tenths lame, but a week later was back to 2 tenths lame. X-rays were then done and showed no arthritis or chipped bones etc. So on the 5th week now of just plain box rest, just wondering at what point to give up and have scans, given he has suspected soft tissue damage for which box rest would be the most likely remedy. We have insurance but don't want to jump the gun but equally it may be time to look for answers? Many thanks for reading.

 

[teddypops]

Use your insurance and get investigating! The lameness will be excluded whether you claim or not, so there is no point in not doing anything and just hoping pony comes sound.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Your insurance clock will have started ticking on the first day of his lameness whether you have contacted the insurance company yet or not.

 

[PONYPC]

If i do not claim, for the bills so far, then the clock will not tick until i make a claim either this time or next, so as long as you do not claim, you can always claim as a new claim in the future if he comes sound on box rest.

 

[TPO]

If i do not claim, for the bills so far, then the clock will not tick until i make a claim either this time or next, so as long as you do not claim, you can always claim as a new claim in the future if he comes sound on box rest.

Not true, you HAVE to inform insurance of every lameness and when you have the vet out for injury or illness. Otherwise this may negate claims. Read the small print.

If you wait until next time.to claim.theyll get vet records and see the previous visit

You've started now so you might as well make the most of the vet fees insurance and thoroughly investigate.

As to your original question that is something to discuss with your vet as only they have seen the horse, level of lameness and can advise on next steps not randoms on the internet

 

[be positive]

If i do not claim, for the bills so far, then the clock will not tick until i make a claim either this time or next, so as long as you do not claim, you can always claim as a new claim in the future if he comes sound on box rest.

You will have to declare this lameness, he has been seen by a vet, had xrays and as yet has not been diagnosed, the clock is ticking and it will be on his vet records, you have been misinformed if you think otherwise.

I would want a diagnosis by now, or at least nerve blocks to determine where the issue is and a well educated guess as to what is going on, referral for an MRI if in the foot would also be in my plans.

 

[Goldenstar]

Your clock is ticking from the day he first say the vet get to it .
has he had any nerve blocking done ?

 

[teddypops]

If i do not claim, for the bills so far, then the clock will not tick until i make a claim either this time or next, so as long as you do not claim, you can always claim as a new claim in the future if he comes sound on box rest.

Not true. The lameness will be on the horses history with the vet. The insurance company will take the first date this was mentioned as the start of the issue. If you try to claim in the future, you will only have 12months from date first mentioned to claim, if you go over this, they won’t pay out due to it being an existing condition.

 

[PONYPC]

Your clock is ticking from the day he first say the vet get to it .
has he had any nerve blocking done ?

yes first day and did not show anything

 

[PONYPC]

Not true. The lameness will be on the horses history with the vet. The insurance company will take the first date this was mentioned as the start of the issue. If you try to claim in the future, you will only have 12months from date first mentioned to claim, if you go over this, they won’t pay out due to it being an existing condition.

This has been confirmed several times with head office?

 

[be positive]

This has been confirmed several times with head office?

I wouldn't want to test this in 12 months time, if he does come sound then goes wrong on the same leg ending up requiring £5k worth of diagnostics and treatment I suspect they will find a way to get out of paying saying it was pre existing and linked to this lameness which is now fairly long standing and possibly more serious than a minor soft tissue injury, either way 5 weeks of box rest following the previous 3 is too long to continue without a diagnosis and treatment plan.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s is far too long to long to wait before going For more diagnostics .
where they block because they will be going some to nerve block the whole of both hind limbs in a day .

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I would have scanned, so I knew what I was box resting for.
I'm very baffled as to why you have blocked and xrayed but once found it was a possible soft tissue injury, then decided to box rest for an un diagnosed problem.

 

[PONYPC]

I wouldn't want to test this in 12 months time, if he does come sound then goes wrong on the same leg ending up requiring £5k worth of diagnostics and treatment I suspect they will find a way to get out of paying saying it was pre existing and linked to this lameness which is now fairly long standing and possibly more serious than a minor soft tissue injury, either way 5 weeks of box rest following the previous 3 is too long to continue without a diagnosis and treatment plan.

Sorry to be clear its been around 4 weeks, hence the decision to book him in being imminent, rather than waiting too long. He has had lameness three years ago on a front hoof and had full blockers and MRi and determined to be 100% sound despite presenting lame. So the rear this time and yes we will be investigating further whether in a weeks time or two, as we can cancel if by a miracle he becomes sound, although he was less than 1 tenths lame a week ago we will most likely proceed further imminently. thanks guys

 

[teddypops]

This has been confirmed several times with head office?

What insurance company? I’m not aware of any who will pay out on a pre existing condition.

 

[PONYPC]

It’s is far too long to long to wait before going For more diagnostics .
where they block because they will be going some to nerve block the whole of both hind limbs in a day .

They were blocked the first day and were inconclusive which is why we had xrays, still nothing hence blockers again and then mri if needed, hence progressing further now as he did almost come sound a week ago.

 

[PONYPC]

They were blocked the first day and were inconclusive which is why we had xrays, still nothing hence blockers again and then mri if needed, hence progressing further now as he did almost come sound a week ago.

sorry two weeks ag, hence xrays a week ago and now progressing further down the diagnostic route

 

[PONYPC]

What insurance company? I’m not aware of any who will pay out on a pre existing condition.

Basically you inform them of the new condition, if then the horse then comes sound without claiming, you still have the option to claim in the future if it happens again if you have not previously claimed

 

[teddypops]

Basically you inform them of the new condition, if then the horse then comes sound without claiming, you still have the option to claim in the future if it happens again if you have not previously claimed

What insurance company?

 

[PONYPC]

What insurance company?

NFU, i have had the conversation many times to confirm this, as long as the horse is sound

 

[Goldenstar]

What was blocked the whole foot ? parts of the feet in sequence , fetlocks ?hocks ? The branches of the suspensory ligaments the stifle the SJ ?
have they done diagnostic ultrasound on the SI’s .
what are they going to MRI ?
the whole hind limb .
have you considered bone scanning first It might give you an idea of where to mri or it going to be very expensive.
bone scanning is always my go to if you can’t find anything .

Sorry to be clear its been around 4 weeks, hence the decision to book him in being imminent, rather than waiting too long. He has had lameness three years ago on a front hoof and had full blockers and MRi and determined to be 100% sound despite presenting lame. So the rear this time and yes we will be investigating further whether in a weeks time or two, as we can cancel if by a miracle he becomes sound, although he was less than 1 tenths lame a week ago we will most likely proceed further imminently. thanks guys

A horse who presents lame has an mri and xrays which find nothing is not sound it’s lame and you have not found what’s wrong with it .
I would be having it’s neck and back checked you really need to seriously consider bone scanning
has he had a neurological work up .
to have two severe limb lamenesses in different limbs that the vets can’t find is unusual and I would not be at all surprised if they are linked .

 

[ycbm]

He has had lameness three years ago on a front hoof and had full blockers and MRi and determined to be 100% sound despite presenting lame.

Run that by me again?


.

 

[PONYPC]

What was blocked the whole foot ? parts of the feet in sequence , fetlocks ?hocks ? The branches of the suspensory ligaments the stifle the SJ ?
have they done diagnostic ultrasound on the SI’s .
what are they going to MRI ?
the whole hind limb .
have you considered bone scanning first It might give you an idea of where to mri or it going to be very expensive.
bone scanning is always my go to if you can’t find anything .



A horse who presents lame has an mri and xrays which find nothing is not sound it’s lame and you have not found what’s wrong with it .
I would be having it’s neck and back checked you really need to seriously consider bone scanning
has he had a neurological work up .
to have two severe limb lamenesses in different limbs that the vets can’t find is unusual and I would not be at all surprised if they are linked .

The last lameness was three years ago and hes been sound till now, we'll escalate through the vets and i'm sure we'll identify the cause and take all necessary steps to get him fit again, thanks for all the interest and advice.

 

[be positive]

Run that by me again?


.

Another that is confused, a lame horse cannot be 100% sound, they may not have found a reason for the lameness but that does not = sound.

 

[teddypops]

NFU, i have had the conversation many times to confirm this, as long as the horse is sound

Not what their T’s & C’s state.

 

[Coolcmsc]

BTW What the vet writes in their notes is what matters - that's what goes to the insurance company with a claim form (sometimes + a summary too). Knowing exactly what's written by the vet (as opposed to what's said at a time of stress in the yard/at equine hospital visit) can sometimes be helpful in developing your strategy as to when to claim.

So, consider politely enquiring what will be written when they get back to their practice office. Some vets will even send you a summary - like GPs are supposed to give you copies of formal letters if you ask (!).

And this requires a neutral non-judgemental conversational style with the vet.

Otherwise you run the risk of having the vet think you're trying to influence them for an insurance benefit...

 

[RHM]

When I was deciding whether to claim or not through NFU they did tell me something similar. But they will only pay out if the horse has been well for a considerable amount of time. When pushing them for a answer (this was regarding EMS) they would pay out in the future if the horse did not need any treatment or medication for years. For me it wasn’t worth the risk in not claiming. Particularly with lameness issues you can easily rack up a couple of £k just on diagnostics!