lameness/laminitis experts - advice needed please

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CazD

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Apologies for the length of this post!

Mare is 10 year old cob. she's a very good doer and I've had her for 6 years. She has been off work for the past 6 months due to various family problems - but no history of any health problems since I've had her.

At the beginning of November I had her shoes taken off. The same day the vet came and gave her her annual jabs. He commented on her weight and I reduced her food. She went lame about a week later but it was very intermittent, some days she would be fine, other days she would be lame when she came out of the stable but OK by the time she'd walked across the yard.

The one evening she was really lame so I rang the farrier. He came out the next morning by which time she was sound again, used the hoof testers and could find nothing. He suggested she may be footsore from no shoes and to give her a week or so and if no better then he'd put the shoes back on. Intermittent lameness carried on so he came and put the shoes back on.

She was then fine for 3 weeks but was lame yesterday morning. About a week prior to this I had introduced a very small amount of low sugar kwik beet to her diet so that I could mix benevit with it. She has had no field turnout for the last two weeks but the horses have been yarded during the day and stabled at night due to the weather. Yesterday was the day the farrier was due. He came at lunchtime and said she had slightly raised pulses in her front feet but no reaction to hoof testers. I got the vet out (different vet from the same practice) yesterday evening by which time she was almost sound again, still slight raised pulses and only marginly lame on one leg if turned in a tight circle clockwise. Vet said she has a slightly cresty neck but not too bad anywhere else.

vet is a bit stumped and has said to just monitor for a few weeks and if no better then they will come and do a full lameness assessment.

Could it be laminitis - is the intermittent lameness usual? As she needs to lose weight I will be continuing with her reduced intake - but if there anything else I should be doing? Would she be better stabled, bearing mind she is contantly turning in a tight circle in her stable, or better out on the yard which is a stone surface?
 
I'm not a vet and only reading what you have written here but with a cresty neck, weight issues, lame turning a circle etc. I would treat her as if it was laminitis and also consider getting her tested for insulin resistance and Cushings. A cresty neck especially a solid one is a key indicator of high risk of laminitis and metabolic disorder.
The introduction of kwik beet also may be a factor so consider stopping it and note her response. Fast fibre may be a better option for her supplements in the longer term. Key minerals are salt, magnesium oxide and also vitamin e.
Also don't forget that grass and hay can be a major source of sugars and carbs so look at possibly reducing her grazing and switch to soaking her hay and note her response.
Have a look here. http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis

Hope that's some help.
 
Agree with Amandap. Sounds as though it could be low grade laminitis. My mare was on off lame for a while before she was diagnosed. Even when really lame she did not react to hoof testers either. If your horse is cresty, then there is a good chance she will get lami. What forage is she eating? She should be fed 1.5% of her (ideal) bodyweight in hay, which should be soaked for twelve hours. Ideally laminitics should be kept on a deep shavings bed or sand or pea gravel to support the underneath of the feet and help prevent sinkage or rotation. If this is not possible with your mare, then I would buy a pair of hoof boots and cut some styrofoam pads to put inside them. In this way she can safely be on any surface as the pads will give her the support she needs. I would not shoe.
 
Hi - I posted this the other day...so am sending this on to you.

Ask you vet for xrays of all 4 feet to check for any rotation of the pedal bone or sinking.
The vet will then be able to see the angles of the pedal bone against the wall of the hoof, the angle of the toe against the frog, and the degree of any sinkage that has taken place.
You will then be able to make an informed decision on how to move forward.
If there is rotation your vet and farrier will need to work hand in hand with the xrays to reshape the feet to the new angle of the pedal bone.
The xrays will give you a starting point and comparisons for xrays later on should you need them
Best of luck.

Bryndu
 
thanks to all that have replied. I have taken her off the kwik beet as from yesterday. she has only been getting 1.5% of her bodyweight in hay, although, as she is yarded with three others, it is possible that she is bullying somebody else for some of their share.

tbh the vet's response was disappointing. farrier had suggested maybe getting blood tests done but the vet said that as she was only 10 it was unlikely to be cushings and therefore didnt think a blood test was necessary. she also wouldnt leave bute as she said it would mask the lameness. basically she had no idea what the problem was and didnt give me any advice whatsoever apart from "monitor the mare for a few weeks and see how she goes".

Hence my posting on here. would I be better to stable her 24/7?
 
Yarding is my preference but if you can't soak the hay for them all I would consider soaking hay for her and stabling for part of the time with soaked hay. You could increase her ration of soaked hay in the stable a bit too. Exercize/movement is important as well to keep metabolisim up. Can you section off a part of the yard for her?

Horses can get Cushings at any age it seems these days, I read of young horses being diagnosed often. You could try insisting on the test, there was a free test available (less vet fee of course) I'll try and find the link.

ps.The link I had doesn't work anymore, perhaps the vouchers have expired. It was through here. http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/
 
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I would honestly suggest you find a better specialist equine vet.
If your horse has Laminitis then the hoof testers will normally result in greater pain in the toe area of the hoof's rather than the side.
My advice would be to get her weight down by putting her in a smaller paddock by using electric fencing if nothing else is available.
Ensure that if you stable her that she has 1 hour soaked hay to reduce the nutrition and that she has a slice of hay every 4 hours if stables (including through the night).
If your horse has got laminitis then ensure that rubber frog supports are fitted to the effected feet and that your horse is stabled and on a very deep bed.
 
could I feed half and half hay and straw instead of soaking the hay? The yard is just stables and field so there is no drainage other than tipping the water down the field. The place is a huge quagmire now anyway with all the rain we've had and I'm not sure that tipping more water down the field is going to go down too well. Or would I be better to just feed fast fibre with no hay at all?
I've never dealt with lami before as I've always been so careful about things and I'm starting to feel out of my depth, esp as the vet hasnt even confirmed it is lami.
 
I would get bloods done there may be something metabolic going on, does she have pads of fat above the eyes instead of hollows this is a give away that something may not be right, I have a mare that can look cresty has fat pads above eyes and vet told me to treat her as if she is laminitic and insulin resistant, she can look at bit footy also, I have cut all sugar from her diet soaked hay and minimum grass, I also feed magnesium oxide this really helped with the crest and fat its really cheap can get from natural horse supplies on line, my horse is being tested in January and she is only 12, she gets fed hifi no mollasses and fast fibre.
 
PeterNatt said:
I would honestly suggest you find a better specialist equine vet.
If your horse has Laminitis then the hoof testers will normally result in greater pain in the toe area of the hoof's rather than the side.
Click to expand...

Neither the vet nor the farrier could get a response using the hoof testers yesterday although both say she has slight pulses in her front feet. whilst I was disappointed in the vet, I have every faith in my farrier and he is extremely well thought of locally.
 
CazD said:
could I feed half and half hay and straw instead of soaking the hay? The yard is just stables and field so there is no drainage other than tipping the water down the field. The place is a huge quagmire now anyway with all the rain we've had and I'm not sure that tipping more water down the field is going to go down too well. Or would I be better to just feed fast fibre with no hay at all?
I've never dealt with lami before as I've always been so careful about things and I'm starting to feel out of my depth, esp as the vet hasnt even confirmed it is lami.
Click to expand...

If you can't soak hay then get her some marksway horsehage hi fibre which is less than 3%sugar. This worked better than soaked hay for my lami mare.
 
amandap said:
I'm not a vet and only reading what you have written here but with a cresty neck, weight issues, lame turning a circle etc. I would treat her as if it was laminitis and also consider getting her tested for insulin resistance and Cushings. A cresty neck especially a solid one is a key indicator of high risk of laminitis and metabolic disorder.
The introduction of kwik beet also may be a factor so consider stopping it and note her response. Fast fibre may be a better option for her supplements in the longer term. Key minerals are salt, magnesium oxide and also vitamin e.
Also don't forget that grass and hay can be a major source of sugars and carbs so look at possibly reducing her grazing and switch to soaking her hay and note her response.
Have a look here. http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/laminitis

Hope that's some help.
Click to expand...

Good advice. My mare was only slightly lame & didn't react to hoof testers either so I stabled her and a couple of days later she had that horrid stance.
 
CazD said:
thanks to all that have replied. I have taken her off the kwik beet as from yesterday. she has only been getting 1.5% of her bodyweight in hay, although, as she is yarded with three others, it is possible that she is bullying somebody else for some of their share.

tbh the vet's response was disappointing. farrier had suggested maybe getting blood tests done but the vet said that as she was only 10 it was unlikely to be cushings and therefore didnt think a blood test was necessary. she also wouldnt leave bute as she said it would mask the lameness. basically she had no idea what the problem was and didnt give me any advice whatsoever apart from "monitor the mare for a few weeks and see how she goes".

Hence my posting on here. would I be better to stable her 24/7?
Click to expand...

Had my 10 year old cob, tested and came back borderline! they can get it at any age according to my vet x
 
OK. I'm now stabling her 24/7 with a haynet and am off today to get some fast fibre and HorseHage if anyone stocks it locally. I've ordered some mag-ox too but typically it wont be here til after christmas.

My farrier has recommended leaving the shoes on and has given me the number of a vet that might be better than mine. would it be better to blood test now or wait until she is slightly better? I googled something yesterday that said if she is in pain with lami then her blood levels will show as raised anyway??
 
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