Laminitic, on box rest, fat and getting fatter.

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One of work's carriage ponies had an attack of laminitis at Christmas, his first as far as we know. He's very sore and not improving although his x-rays show structurally he's fine. His cushings test was negative and the vets are saying its looking like he's an EMS case.

Treatment: Box rest. Heart bars and pads. Bute (two a day, whenever I try just giving him one he gets worse). Asprin now three every other day. He was on three ACP a day but the vet said he had to stop them. Pro-digit (mineral suppliment/digestive aid) one a day. Now (clutching at straws!) one pergolide a day. Any thoughts welcome.
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My main question is regarding feeding him. He's always carried alot of condition, even when super fit driving up to two hours a day. But he came back from his time off overweight and now he's on box rest he's just disgusting. Hard feed (he needs enough to mix all his medicine into) Hi-fi Lite, Hi-Fibre Cubes, Lo-cal feed balancer and bran. What do you think to just giving him loads of bran instead? Also, hay wise, I've never fed him haylage thinking its richer than hay but the hay I do give him is extremely good hay. I tried giving him crap hay a couple of years ago but it made him cough even though I always soak hay. I don't know where I can get a constant supply of high quality but low energy hay so do you think he might be better on the hi-fibre haylage? He's very greedy and I hate him standing there bored with nothing so if it wouldn't last as long as hay that would rule that out too. What does everyone think? I'm getting very frustrated and feeling very sorry for the poor little chap.
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You could have a word with Simple Systems, they do forages with no added molasses or additives, they might have something suitable. You could give him double soaked sugar beet pulp. Soak it once, then throw away the first water and soak it again to get rid of as much sugar as possible.

VERY SLOWLY (and I mean very slowly, like starting with one handful) introduce barley straw for him to eat instead of hay. But some horses will not eat it, and you need to get nice clean straw with no dust.

It is very difficult, particularly as he can't do any work.
You will have to give him very small amounts, but throughout the day. You could put some high fibre nuts into a feed ball, so he has some of his ration, but it makes him work for it.

Look also on some barefoot horses websites, as there should be quite a lot of information on the best way to deal with laminitic ponies.
 
Sorry long answer but hope it helps! Firstly i would email dengie or some of the other feeding places and see what they come up with and secondly i wouldnt feed just bran, here's a quote about it -

"But the bigger danger of feeding too much bran to horses lies in what it can do to the dietary calcium-phosphorus ratio. The two most abundant bodily minerals, calcium and phosphorus work together to build sound bones and assist muscle function. To do so, however, they must be absorbed in appropriate proportions by the body, which means that when a horse ingests phosphorus, he must also ingest an equal or, preferably, slightly greater amount of calcium.

If there's not enough calcium to match the phosphorus in a bran-fed horse's daily feed, his body will pull extra calcium from his bones in order to balance the excess phosphorus in his gut. If a horse gets too much phosphorus over too long a period, his body will take so much calcium from the bones that it weakens the skeleton and leads to bone disorders such as "big head." Grass hays such as timothy and orchardgrass contain the exact ratio of calcium to phosphorus that horses need; wheat bran and rice bran contain about 10 times too much phosphorus, on a per pound basis"
 
just feed him hifi lite with a bit of powdered mineral and vits in it.syringe his meds if needed.
if he is still acute i wouldnt give cubes.
i would soak the hay for 12hours to get rid of any added calories.dont give haylage.you could mix the hay with oat straw but be careful in case he gets colic.
is there any specialist the vet can refere you to?
does he box walk?
my mare had an attack of lami last year(her 1st) and she was very lame.xrays also showing nothing amiss.
started turning her out in a stable sized area in deep sand so she could see the other horses and she didnt pace round and her lameness improved so quickly.she had given herself very sore muscles from the constant box walking.
 
Having lami's I would get the Simple Systems Luciebix. Its very cheap, you can feed absolutely loads of it ( has to be soaked for a couple of hours first) No point in feeding anything else, you could feed the High Fibre Horsehage; Its fine for laminitics, because of the water content they can be fed more, put into two small holed haylage nets one inside the other.
Make sure he is on a deep shavings bed, don't turn out until he is sound after 30 with no pain releif. Could be months, but the longer the recooperation the better, mine has been back in full work now for three years.
 
I would cut out all hard feed. Just give him literally a handful of nuts. Chage the Bute to danillon as it's much more palitable, and syringe the rest down his neck.

Hay - only twice a day - and small nets at that, and feed hay replacer such as Hi Fi lite.

I have to say I'm not sure that I would carry on if the horse is still requiring two bute almost three months after the initial attack. But that is obviously a purely personal view.
 
Thank you everybody! That's given me a few more things to do. His hay's now in two small holed haynets, so he's got even less and I'm starting to soak it for twelve hours, I only normally do it for 30mins. His feeds are now just hi-fi, bran and a handful of nuts with his bute/pro-digit, until I can look at this Simple Systems and I'll syringe the asprins.

He doesn't really box walk. He has a little upset when he walks backwards then forwards a bit when his friends first go out but then he settles.

I know there is a time to call it a day but he's coping very well, bless him, and he's an absolutely irreplacable member of our little driving squad! Thanks again and any more ideas welcome.
 
Cut out all hard feed. Is he still overweight? soak his hay overnight. Something is not right if he is still on bute after this length of time. I wouldn't get your hopes up too much about him doing a vast amount of exercise again as you won't want concussion to his feet.
 
I would suggest cutting out all but the HiFiLite, to mix his meds in with a broad spectrum vit/min supplement. Also agree with mixing straw in with his hay, but wheat not barley.
I would also recommend you try some Aloe vera Juice. Give double the adult dose stated on a human version. It's not scientifically proven but thousands of people - inlcuding me - have had great results, and it can't harm. It will also help the stomach after all the Bute
 
The other option, instead of feeding chaff, would be to soak the lo-cal... this way he would still be getting the nutrients, which have been reduced more now the hay is being soaked for longer (which i agree with), but soaking nuts only takes about 30 mins untill they are a mash, which will also increase the time it takes for him to eat, whilst making a nice slodge to mix meds in with.

Dandelion and nettles are also supposed to be good for laminitics, and garlic is supposed to help cleanse the blood, and so would be good.

Good luck with it all x
 
Ive got a shetland who's had lami on and off and seems to get it at the SLIGHTEST thing. So now she no longer gets any grass at all - she stays in a hardcored yard and is allowed out twice a week into a rather bare paddock purely to let off some steam. However even being off grass she has got "sore" nown and again. I was advised it may be metabolic so the simplest things could set her off. Ive had her on SpeediBeet, Simple Systems Linseed and an allround vit & min supplement for about 6 weeks now and (touch wood) she is sound as anything! First time in a while too. Its a very basic diet which I believe the barefoot community call an "emergency diet" or something along those lines. She had been on lami-safe feeds (hi-fi chaff, high-fibre cubes etc.) before going onto this however obviously even those were too much for her!

Id advise definately putting this horse onto it. Even just for a while, until he gets over this case (as maybe this one isnt as sensitive as mine). It doesnt look very yummy, but horses seem to love Speedibeet.
 
If your pony is still laminitic I would seriously consider cutting out all alfalfa. Although alfalfa is recommended by the Laminitis Trust, some horses cannot tolerate it, which I found with my mare who kept getting footy after a bad laminitis attack a year ago. I now feed her on 12hr soaked hay and unmolassed beet (with a vit & min supplement) and she has been fine for a few months now.

Be aware that a lot of hi-fibre nuts and feed balancers contain alfafa.

If your pony needs to lose weight then you will have to be hard on yourself and reduce food intake. Whilst my mare was on box rest and needing to lose weight I fed her on just 1% of her bodyweight. If you feel he needs munch-value food try giving him a bucket of unmolassed oat straw chaff. It looks boring, but if he's hungry he'll eat it.
 
Suggest you ring the laminitis trust, they will advise you on a suitable diet, & the amount of food you need to give to help him lose weight. I know you are doing your best, but you must be hard on yourself & get the weight off, good luck.
 
I would say that pony needs a lot less hard feed... Speedibeet is an idea as it provides bulk, without any nutrients so he won't feel as hungry. I wouldn't be feeding him a balancer or any additional vit / min supplements as his body obviously can't process what he already gets! look at feeding him stinging nettles and or a supplement for laminitics and hay rations weighed and soaked (1 hour is suposed to be enough to take out the nutrients) and fed out of small holed nets.

Don't know why he was taken of ACP as this should be one of the best things for him...

I would avoid putting treats in a snack ball as you don't want him moving around too much or banging objects with his feet.

Straw can have a higher nutritional value than hay so don't be fooled but it could be mixed with hay to slow his eating down further...
 
to be honest if he is fat and getting fatter then I would cut out absolutely everything bar two small handfuls of hifi lite to put his meds in and 3 sections of soaked hay a day. This is what my boy was on when he got lammi and he wasn't even fat, it was just to get him to lose as much as possible whilst his feet were hurting. Wouldn't add any supplements untill he is slim again, once you're at that stage you'l feel a lot nicer feeding him a bit more but right now, for his own good he only needs the absolute basics!
 
Please do not starve your pony, I was advised years ago by the Laminitis Trust to give my pony 1% of his body weight; That was just 10lb of hay a day ( about 3 sections) Now for a 14.1 cob that was not enough and he wrecked his stable out of hunger and boredam. My vet was horrified and told me to double the hay. Result, one happy pony.
I would not worry too much until your pony is sound, when he can be exercised more, lots of walking. Its the only way, just like humans don't loose weight by starvation. In the long run anyway.
Agree with CBFan, Speedi-beet is excellent.
 
Just two points:
Maybe ask if you can buy some of 2006's old hay....as long as it isn't mouldy as it will have reduced nutrients in it.
And to correct CBFan, Speedibeet does actually have some 'nutrients' in it - namely some sugar, and a lot of cellulose which is broken down in the hind gut and used as fuel for heat, movement etc. It's high in calcium too.
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Echo suggestion above of Simple Systems, our pony had a major attack of lami 4 years ago and was crippled for about 2 months. Since then she has just VERY bare paddocks, hay and simple systems lucibix bulked out abit with jhappy hoof as she is now in work.
I would advise against giving haylage, it caused a second attack for our pony when she was already on box rest (she was stealing it from stable next door!)
Also, is it definately the laminitis causing the ongoing problem? Our little one, despite recovering , was very up and down until we managed to put her out with some company, as she tended not to move around much and therefore was very stiff when she did, so it was a bit of a vicious circle? Since turning her out (still on virtually bare earth) with a companion she has gone from strength to strength and is off to a new PC loan home tomorrow!
 
Hven't read everyone else's replies so excuse if repeated.

Soak his hay for 12-24 hours. This effectively leaches out most of the nutrients, and will result in a low nutrient high fibre feed. has to be for this long or it won't work.

All he needs are vits, mins and a bit of protein to help him recover from the laminitis. So you can give him a handful (small) of a very low energy chaff (eg hifi lite) and a broad spectrum vit supplement (eg codlivine, equivite etc). Personally if you can afford it I would invest in the formula 4 feet for him, v. little calorific content, in pellet so don't even have to give him chaff (edited to say you need the chaff for his meds of course!), and gives him all he needs to get his feet repaired and to ease any insulin resistance he more than ,likely has.

Hope this makes sense and helps
 
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