Laminitis 😔

ester

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Have they postulated why the fluid was there?

I'd be quite concerned that there has been no improvement and now sinking since I think mid october?

sorry just saw you answered the first one. It's not something I've heard of before unless a different abscess presentation.
 
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The farrier said it was weird when he opened The foot. He said all he did was open the laminae. I expected fluid to dribble out like it would with an abscess. But farrier says it should seep through laminae. My farrier was trained by the Ferries so I'm confident in his knkwledge and what he's doing.
 

meleeka

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Did he have the TRH test for cushings? I think if he were mine I’d want him on a trial of Prascend before you decide what to do. You literally have nothing to lose by the sounds of it. They’ll be an improvement quite quickly so it’s not a case of waiting for months to see a difference. I would have expected him to be more improved than he is by now.
 
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So sorry to hear that Sebastian is having a setback. Have you considered consulting a barefoot practitioner with experience in Laminitics? That's what I did and he turned things around for my little cob. Its so hard watching them when they are so lame and trying to do the best for them.
 
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No haven't considered that as yet. My sister really struggles to get a barefoot farrier and she's in the same area as me. Will look into it though xx
 

equi

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No haven't considered that as yet. My sister really struggles to get a barefoot farrier and she's in the same area as me. Will look into it though xx
Hence why i mentioned Rockley. They may have some life saving advice, or even want to have him with them...it just depends on your money situation.
 

holeymoley

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Setterali my boy was shod by one of the Ferries 2 weeks ago, they are worth their weight in gold. Is it possible the liquid is similar to the build up you can sometimes get when the pedal bone comes away from the laminar wall? I agree I would be concerned as to the sinking, especially after 2 months.
 

holeymoley

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I’ve re-read your posts and see he’s negative for ems and cushings. It may be worth testing again. What does he get fed hard feed-wise? I’ve stripped my guy completely back, it’s amazing what can contribute/hamper the recovery time.
 
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Hiya I've got him on 1 stubbs scoop of top spec zero split into two feeda with magnesium supplement he also gets equivite orivinal vitamin supplement. Hay soaked overnight 3 nets a day. So literally nothing. Vet says his weight is fab and she wouldn't want him any thinner. Don't know what else o can do.
 

holeymoley

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Ah, nothing obvious then ☹️ I was using dengie chaff and then read that alfalfa isn’t good for laminitics, have since swapped to top spec zero and pink mash. I was worried about what the bute may be doing for the length of time he was on it hence the mash. I also fed magnesium and a zeolite powder (toxin remover) but have cut everything out as discovered he was having good days and bad days. So far so good 🤞🏻. I also put leg wraps on during the night when it’s cold.

My guy tested positive for insulin resistance but I do think it’s been the warmer weather this year. Even up until the last week or so it’s been extra mild up here and the grass has still been growing. I know it’s a very personal opinion but if he had relief from the farrier today I would still keep going. I thought about put my boy to sleep when he couldn’t move at all at the start and I heard of his rotation, but he still had his look in his eye.

Apologies for the grammar I blame predictive text on the phone! If you’re on Facebook laminitis chit chat is a really helpful page with encouraging stories.
 
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I think that what is making it more difficult if I'm being honest. He's still a very happy boy and is moving well in his stable. Will definitely see how he is after a few days x
 
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My 20 year old Connie cross mare now recovered from intense Laminitis attack last July. 30 days stall test in deep bedding. 4soaked small hole hay bags 4x day. She needed to lose weight so hay is weighed plus her blood test showed Cushings. Surprising how much a flake varies in weight! No pellets only complete vitamins .
X-rays were clear right from day 1. Started daily Prescend 1/4 tablet increased 1/4 more each week until now she has 1 tablet per day for life. She is ridden daily withlight walk- trot lessons a week and hacking- no more than 1 hour each time. There is some sole sensitivity and ferrier May put pads on for the winter. She loved to eat grass, apples , carrots, . Vet stressed strictness of diet including no grass ever again. I liken it to a diabetic diet. It’s all become the new normal for her and she no longer looks for treats or pulls to stop for grass. Being this rigorous in her care, if she had another setback at 21plus years and on, I would not have her in stall rest for another month or more. I would opt for euthanasia. It’s a very time consuming illness that needs vigilance .She lives outside my kitchen window in/out grassless paddock . Vet said catching it so quickly helped . We’ve had 14 horses over the years and this is the first bout I’ve experienced yet the more I read , it is a common occurrence. Best of luck,
 

windand rain

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Sounds like the serum is from the breakdown of the laminae and once its drained it should heal but it will be slow. His weight and size wont help but keeping him as still as possible will help was he sedated at first so he lay down a lot as this is often crucial for survival and recovery. Keeping still is probably more important than feeding as most people know what to do about feeding but a lot of people including vets dont realise the importance of keeping as still as possible. I hope you get a positive recovery I have only studied laminitis in ponies so not had to deal with large horses with it and I know it is much harder to get the weight off their feet.
 
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I am so sorry you are having to experience this:(

My avatar horse came close to checking out with founder in 2012. Degree of rotation is measured by TWO methods:

1. I can tell from your numbers, your vet measures from the ground. I might have doubted the large degrees were it not for the x-rays you posted.

2. My lameness vet measures FROM THE DORSAL WALL. My horse's x-Rays looked almost as bad as yours. His rotations were 8-9 degrees on the LF, 5 degrees on the RF so still equally as life threatening plus his insulin numbers were more than three times higher than what is considered "high/normal".

3. He did not wear shoes in the beginning. I kept him in therapy boots and pads for turnout and brought him in at night to a stall that has mats with ~4" of shavings.

3.1. He did de-rotate but foundered again, a year later, IN THE FALL. (I can't get the bold feature to work, thus the caps:(

4. While this horse still has thick hoof wall, his soles have become thin. I am fast forwarding to what has helped this horse in ways that is nothing short of a Bibilical miracle for hooves.

4.1. EquiPak CS by VetTec and aluminum "Natural Balance PLR Flat" shoes. He is only shod and packed on the front.

EquiThane CS (CS for copper sulfate) goes into the hoof as a liquid and solidifies in less than four minutes, BUT the horse needs to be kept in the stall a few hours to let it cure to a really solid form.

5. My farrier trims both my horses every five weeks. The IR horse generally has enough hoof to nip off, even in the winter. This coming Monday will be the fourth re-set since using Vetec's EquiPak CS (EquiThane). I have no idea how long we will keep my horse's hooves packed in this product -- it can sometimes be forever, it just depends on the horse's hooves.

Well s*** #%%^***. I tried to upload pics of the packing and one of the hooves -- they are closeup pics and this software tells me the files are too large! I am sorry as they would have been stellar examples of how well the EquiPak works.


6. FWIW, I have never heard of serum leaking out of the whiteline, unless your horse is still dealing with an abscess and has developed more infection in that area?

7. Diet. Diet can always be tweeked and stripped. I feed my horse a vit/min supplement that does NOT have added iron, does NOT have grains and has a 4.25% NSC rating. I mix it in Timothy pellets & water with his other supplements.

He also receives an extra 2,500 IU of human grade pure Vitamin E (no selenium) from HorseTech.

7.1. I am able to buy hay by the year so I have his hay tested every year. I buy local orchard/fescue/Timothy that always comes back between 8.1% & 8.9% NSC value, which means I don't have to soak it.

7.2. He has been in remission since 2015, therefore goes to pasture without a muzzle since 2015. He has six acres to himself plus access to the barn & hay during turnout.

8. BE CAREFUL with too much bute - it certainly does beget ulcers over an extended period because the horse is already stressed -- ask me how I know this:(

9. My point to all this is --- as long as your horse's eyes are telling you it wants to keep fighting and you have the financial means to keep going, then keep going. You can always find another vet or take the horse to a university if there is one close by. At least that is how we do things in the U.S. I don't know if your country has government regulations in place where they take control of a horse's welfare if they "think" they need to:(

I have enough money in my loyal broke to death trail horse to buy a high caliber Dressage horse, plus a year's worth of lessons to learn to ride some level of Dressage.

I'm afraid I will lose this post, so I will come back and edit with the links to the EquiPak and HorseTech's products that I use.

https://www.vettec.com/equi-pakcs-160cc-pour-pad

https://horsetech.com/high-point-grass

https://horsetech.com/equine-supplements/selenium-vitamin-e-antioxidants/vitamin-e-supplements

*** Its a LOT of work and expense on your part but there is hope. I am hoping my horse's story can be of help to you:)

Wishing you the very best in his recovery:)
 
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Ok -- The pics of one hoof on my IR horse, with the EquiPak are in post #24 of this link.

What looks like a hoof cadaver sitting on the foot stool is actually the hoof pak coming off in one piece. The actual hoof is pictured right after the trim and before being re-packed with EquiPak CS and nailing the Natural Balance aluminum shoe back on.

This is also a laminitis thread but another forum --- if the mods allow links to other forums --- if not, I understand:)

If this link does open and you see the pics, you will see why I don't understand the files being too big for this forum's software to upload.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/...nic-abscesses-whose-been-down-this-road/page2
 

Nari

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If he's still bright & happy I'd take it one day at a time, I always feel if they're prepared to keep fighting & aren't a completely lost cause then I will stand & fight with them. I agree about asking the vet for a Prascend trial. My big lad couldn't have bute or any NSAID because they upset his gut too badly, but that meant he spent a lot of time down which may well have saved him. It's a fine line.

I'm keeping everything crossed for you x
 

Leo Walker

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8. BE CAREFUL with too much bute - it certainly does beget ulcers over an extended period because the horse is already stressed -- ask me how I know this:(
I would be a LOT more worried about not providing pain relief than I ever would be worried about ulcers. Ulcers can be treated. They can also be cause by pain and stress alone.
 

holeymoley

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I would be a LOT more worried about not providing pain relief than I ever would be worried about ulcers. Ulcers can be treated. They can also be cause by pain and stress alone.
Definitely. Sort the primary problem first and deal with any consequences after or you may not have a horse to deal with is the way I see it. Sounds harsh but had thought along these lines regarding ucers due to bute and thrush due pads and box rest, however in the grand scheme of things they are trivial in comparison to acute laminitis.
 
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