Laminitis 😔

meleeka

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And whose benefit is that for? HIs or yours?

I really hope that he recovers but it does seem extremely unlikely.
I think that’s unfair. OP’s horse isn’t isn’t going to care whether he gets pts this week, next month or whether it even comes to that. she’s already said he’s happy enough in himself. He may get better, which the vets seem to think a possibility, but the only person that has to be happy with the decisions she makes is OP. She’s the one looking at the horse in front of her and she’s the one that has to live with her decision long after we’ve all forgotten about this thread. I totally understand wanting to try everything possible before making the call.

OP - I had one recover from worse but she was only little. A cushings diagnosis would be good in this case.
 
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And whose benefit is that for? HIs or yours?

I really hope that he recovers but it does seem extremely unlikely.
I appreciate your comments, however this horse has been a lifeline for me, he's cost me practically nothing in all the years I've owned him. Just for avoidance of doubt I'm not a naive wee girl who's playing ponies. I've had and worked with horses for approximately 30 years. In all that time I've never had a laminitic, Sebastian is the first. I've kept him successfully all these years without laminitis. Something has changed internally for this to be his first ever bout at the age of 17.
Yes to a certain extent I'm doing this for me because you know what I'm not giving up until I know I've done my absolute damndest for this horse.
I'm also doing this for Sebastian as I know him better than anyone and he will tell me when he's done. At this moment in time he isn't so I'll keep fighting for him.

If it comes to it I will not hesitate as his welfare comes before my feelings. I've been this way with all my animals whether it be a guinea pig or a horse.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I think that’s unfair. OP’s horse isn’t isn’t going to care whether he gets pts this week, next month or whether it even comes to that. she’s already said he’s happy enough in himself. He may get better, which the vets seem to think a possibility, but the only person that has to be happy with the decisions she makes is OP. She’s the one looking at the horse in front of her and she’s the one that has to live with her decision long after we’ve all forgotten about this thread. I totally understand wanting to try everything possible before making the call.

OP - I had one recover from worse but she was only little. A cushings diagnosis would be good in this case.


Unfortunately, horses often DON'T show how much pain they are in. I feel very sorry for OP but I feel more sorry for the horse. I have had to deal with 2 horses who foundered, one a Welsh A who managed to clear up a discarded bag of sheep creep feed and the other, a 17hh Shire who was misdiagnosed by an incompetent vet. It is nearly impossible to keep their pain under control and ime very few horses enjoy box rest.

The vet involved in this case should have done the TRH test and tests for IR/EMS immediately and should be honest with the owner about the prognosis in a big horse with a sinking pedal bone. Prascend made a lot of difference to a mare that I had with a persistent hoof abscess but it isn't going to lift a pedal bone back in the correct position. If the vet thought Cushings was the cause Prascend should have been given when the first bout happened.

LW has related a horrendous experience with her cob, who was nowhere near the size of OP's horse, because the vet 'kept trying'. IMO, it isn't fair to the horse or the owner. Vets are the people who have the experience and emotional detachment to make a judgement about individual cases, not the owners who have probably and certainly, in this case, never seen anything similar. IMO, vets have a professional responsibility to be honest with owners not just keep on charging for treating a hopeless case.

I was very appreciative when my vet told me when my heavy mare had colic, that because of her age and size, she would not recommend surgery. That was fine because I wasn't intending to put her through it anyway. Fortunately the mare recovered after 36 hrs of muscle relaxants and pain-relief.

OP, I am sorry to be so plain-speaking but it is from experience of what you and your horse are going through now. I hope you do get a better outcome than ours.
 
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Update

Sebastian has tested positive for EMS, his levels were over double what they should be.

He started on metformin powder this morning.
Ive changed his bedding across to shavings which should help.

I spoke to the vet and farrier and asked outright if they felt I was being selfish keeping him going. My farrier does not mince his words. They both said they felt there was the chance of a decent outcome and that as I have my horses at home I'm in a enviable position regarding on going care when he eventually vets turned back out.

I have made the decision that if we have another episode I will have him pts as his welfare does come first. At the moment though I feel he deserves a chance.

I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my posts and took the time to read his story so far. I'm grateful for all opinions whether I agreed with them or not. I'll try to keep updating as we go xxx
 

_HP_

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Ecir and/the laminitis site are bth excellent for advice and support.
I would also ask your vet about prascend trial. Cushing's test aren't the most reliable.
Keep extra regular trims to get that rotation sorted....barefoot is usually best for that because it can be done more regularly, more easily. Boots and pads for protection is required.
Good luck
 

Nari

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Metformin can help a lot in the short term. Longer term I've found NoMetSyn to be a fantastic product. It's sold by EquiLife, which is the sales arm of The Laminitis Clinic, and as well as having a fantastic product they will also give you a lot of good advice if you want it, and it's practical advice based on hands on experience with a large number of severe cases rather than theory that just isn't practical.

Good luck with him x
 

Bertolie

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Have only just come across this thread. My heavy cob mare succumbed to laminitis at the end of June 2018. Xrays showed rotation and sinking of the pedal bones in both fronts. She has been on box rest since (nearly 8 months), on a deep shavings bed and on a very strict diet. Like the OPs vet, mine advised that heavy breeds didnt always do well with recovery but said as long as she was happy and bright to give her a year for the hoof to grow down and then see where we are. Cushings and EMS tests came back negative to everyone's disbelief, with Liphook stating they were an excellent set of results! Imprint shoes were recommended but her feet are too big, however Andrew Poynton has been making lightweight heart bars for her and we have seen some improvement since they have been on. I still have no guarantees that she will make a full recovery but as long as shes happy and bright we will fight on. Thankfully she is an absolute saint on box rest otherwise we may have had to rethink.
 
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Ecir and/the laminitis site are bth excellent for advice and support.
I would also ask your vet about prascend trial. Cushing's test aren't the most reliable.
Keep extra regular trims to get that rotation sorted....barefoot is usually best for that because it can be done more regularly, more easily. Boots and pads for protection is required.
Good luck
Definitely recommend the Laminitis Site and look up Hoof Geek, she's ace!

From experience I'd recommend
  • No shoes and really regular trims to realign.
  • Soaked hay (make sure there's no rye in your hay as even soaking won't remove the sugar) Mine was on ad lib soaked meadow hay, as much hay as she could eat. She never ran out. Over 6 months she lost 50kg in weight (she had been diagnosed with ems) and she was NEVER muzzled. Anyone who suggests a muzzle unfriend and block from your life! ;)
  • Support the feet with deep shavings but leave the stable door open and restrict to moving around the yard. Movement will help with the recovery.
  • EVA foam mats (from Argos or B&Q) are cheap and great for padding the feet. Use duct tape to secure, or inch wide cows tail tape for tiny feet!
  • Stop feeding any mixes and take it back to straights. Mine couldn't tolerate alfalfa or sugar beet (even though it's recommended for laminitics) so we ended up with copra plus (through trial and error) I've found a balancer she can cope with.
  • Make sure salt is available.
Laminitis seems like a death sentence but you know the cause, so once you're over the initial trauma you can look at managing that cause. Just think of it as keeping his sugar levels as stable as possible. Grass is highly variable eg when there's a frost the sugar level rises or short stressed grass has more sugar than longer tougher grasses. Simplify everything then you can spot any changes. Best of luck :)
 
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Update

Vet has been this afternoon. After all these months of hard work she has suggested that's as he has been bute free and digital pulse free for a fortnight. He is ready for a set of front shoes, as he is tender walking on stony ground but sound walking on flat ground. A fortnight after being shod she has said he can have very limited turnout and see how he goes.
So cautiously optimistic that things are going in the right direction for my lovely patient big horse xxx
 

holeymoley

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Some good news. Will you be using the ferries? They have managed to get my guy from 11 and 13• down to 1• and when new hoof grows down it will be 0•. He’s been sound for nearly 6 weeks 😍
 
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The vet said just normal shoes as she wants to lift his soles. She doesn't think there is any point using heart bars again as he doesn't need them.
My farrier trained with the ferries so I'm comfortable using him.
Interestingly my vet said that she wasnt going to xray as the amount of rotation could not be fixed. The best we could hope for was that he came sound without bute which has been the case. I always thought rotation could be fixed?
 
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Having read some of the posts on here, I just wanted to emphasise that a Cushings test will not always be definitive. My horse had 2 tests and both came back negative. He did, however, test positive for EMS. He was put on a trial of Prascend and within 6 weeks was a different horse - more energy, sleeker coat etc. All sugar was cut out of his diet. Grazing muzzle used for turnout. His weight was reduced. He is now 25 and is hacked out 5 times per week and doing well.
 

holeymoley

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The vet said just normal shoes as she wants to lift his soles. She doesn't think there is any point using heart bars again as he doesn't need them.
My farrier trained with the ferries so I'm comfortable using him.
Interestingly my vet said that she wasnt going to xray as the amount of rotation could not be fixed. The best we could hope for was that he came sound without bute which has been the case. I always thought rotation could be fixed?
How bizarre. Perhaps she’s meaning the bone can never be put back in to position as such? But yes you can ‘correct’ it by rebalancing the hoof.
 
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Yeah I think that's probably what she meant, she says that the farrier has done a great job with his feet and they look really good now. Obviously his soles are soft from standing in on a shavings bed for as many months but she reckons they will harden up with some turnout x
 

meleeka

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Yeah I think that's probably what she meant, she says that the farrier has done a great job with his feet and they look really good now. Obviously his soles are soft from standing in on a shavings bed for as many months but she reckons they will harden up with some turnout x
Has anyone mentioned diet for hoof health? Mine has very soft soles but there was a noticeable improvement once on Farriers Formula.
 
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Yes the vet did mention it might be worth supplementing him with something. I'm feeding him at the moment.

Top spec chaff zero
A handful of happy hoof (non molassed) he wont eat without it.
Metformin twice a day
A general vitamin supplement
Magnesium
Salt.
Will swap vit supp for farriers formula.

I feel mean as he is very thin. Every rib is visible. Vet says he looks worse as he has barely any muscle after being in for so long.
 

holeymoley

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I feed formula 4 feet with topchop zero and mine’s got quite hard soles. We do in hand walking on concrete now (vets advice) and he happily went over a stoney path the other day much to my horror!
 

Nari

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That's fantastic news!

I agree about the rotation can't really be fixed, but realigning the hoof capsule to the pedal bone can significantly improve comfort & give the impression that the rotation has been reversed on a first glance at x-rays.

Mine was shod with pads & putty so he still had some support, important when a shoe lifts the foot off the ground. It might be worth discussing this with your farrier.
 
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I discussed pads with the vet but she says as he has a touch of thrush from being in so long she would rather not use anything for the moment as she doesn't want to make it worse. I will definitely speak to farrier and see what he recommends. I'm waiting for him to get back to me. Hes a bloody nightmare!!
 

Nari

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Fair enough. My only concern, particularly with him being a big boy with big feet, is the lack of support, but I don't know all the specifics of his case.
 
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