Laminitis again or something else?

Hepsibah

Hepsibah

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 January 2016
Messages
778
Visit site
My Daisy seems to have relapsed. :( Brought her in to ride and although she was fine coming in she was obviously uncomfortable an hour or so later when I tacked her up. She's lame on turning, has warmish feet, a mild, not bounding digital pulse that comes and goes and when she walks in a straight line she walks as though she's wearing flippers. I am treating it as though it is laminitis and have the vet coming early next week but I can't help wondering how it can be laminitis considering how well she's been doing: she's been out in a well grazed strip of the field along with three others, is exercised every other day and has lost weight whilst out there. Is there anything else it could be or am I definitely back to square one?
 
I don't know whether you're back to square one, but you're doing the right thing by treating her as if she is laminitic again. I'd want the vet or farrier out straight away though, laminitis is as much an emergency as a colic & you wouldn't wait until early next week for that. Fingers crossed that if it is a relapse - and it does sound like one - it's a mild one.
 
Vet has been contacted for advice, she's out next week to do vaccinations and says that will be soon enough to assess her since I'm already following emergency procedures of deep bed, soaked hay and bute. Farrier is out tomorrow afternoon. I just wonder if there is anything else which might present in the same way.
 
Our small mare suffered a bout of acute laminitis last November - it was triggered by sepsis, which she got from a bite. Any sign of an injury or infection? I would also want the vet/farrier out asap. Best of luck.
 
I dont want to scare you but Frankie was slim and not quite properly fit but was fit enough for a couple of hours hacking. He wasnt fat. No fat pads at all, ribs visible on turning and easily feelable. I micro managed him to the 9th degree. He still came down with lammi, his pedal bones sunk in the end and despite everything I could do, including specialised rehab livery we still lost him so dont underestimate it!
 
It does sound like a mild case. The weather has meant there’s a lot more cases this year. Two of mine are being watched like a hawk and I’ve had to reduce their track by half because they both had raised pulses. They are fine now but theyve only got 1 acre of track where they are normally fine on 2.
 
Has she been tested for EMS and Cushings? Either of these will make her much more susceptible to laminitis, and the current weather conditions (lots of rain followed by warm and sunny) will have triggered a surge in grass growth. Even if the strip looks well grazed, they can still take in a lot of new grass growth as they eat it as fast as it grows.
 
Vet is going to take bloods when she comes to test for insulin resistance. PPID test is best done in the autumn but if she tests negative for IR we won't wait.
Farrier came this afternoon and couldn't find a pulse. He says it's most likely to be concussion with the ground having been so hard, that she's going in the right direction and he's happy enough with her feet to take a wait and see approach. I'll see what the vet has to say but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she agrees with the farrier.
 
Leo Walker said:
I dont want to scare you but Frankie was slim and not quite properly fit but was fit enough for a couple of hours hacking. He wasnt fat. No fat pads at all, ribs visible on turning and easily feelable. I micro managed him to the 9th degree. He still came down with lammi, his pedal bones sunk in the end and despite everything I could do, including specialised rehab livery we still lost him so dont underestimate it!
Click to expand...
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's my worst nightmare and I can't imagine how awful it must have been. It's a miserable condition for all concerned. :(
 
Is the horse shod ?
There’s no way I would wait for the vet however since you have decided to you really ought to get some frog supports and apply them until the vet comes .
 
Her frogs (and soles) are supported by the deep wood pellet bedding she is on. I didn't wait for the vet, vet was contacted, spoken to and if the vet was to have come out, she, by her own admission would have advised me to do that which I have already done then come out a few days later to see if it had improved or worsened so she felt it more appropriate to come out later.
I'm not sure why everyone is waving their arms around about whether my emergency procedures are correct; they come from the Laminitis site and are well documented as being effective. My vet is an ambulatory specialist and I have been working with her since x rays confirmed laminitis and she, my farrier and I devised a plan of action which we have each followed. Yes, I came onto a forum to ask a question: Are there any other condition(s) which have similar symptoms to laminitis? It doesn't have to follow that I'm therefore completely ignorant and need educating from scratch, that my vet is an idiot or my farrier incompetant.
 
Hepsibah said:
Her frogs (and soles) are supported by the deep wood pellet bedding she is on. I didn't wait for the vet, vet was contacted, spoken to and if the vet was to have come out, she, by her own admission would have advised me to do that which I have already done then come out a few days later to see if it had improved or worsened so she felt it more appropriate to come out later.
I'm not sure why everyone is waving their arms around about whether my emergency procedures are correct; they come from the Laminitis site and are well documented as being effective. My vet is an ambulatory specialist and I have been working with her since x rays confirmed laminitis and she, my farrier and I devised a plan of action which we have each followed. Yes, I came onto a forum to ask a question: Are there any other condition(s) which have similar symptoms to laminitis? It doesn't have to follow that I'm therefore completely ignorant and need educating from scratch, that my vet is an idiot or my farrier incompetant.
Click to expand...

Pus in the foot on more than one leg onsetting at the same time that would give you the same symptoms .
I would what frog supports on any horse of mine deep bed or not .
 
I'm out. Finding an apparently perfectly healthy six year old stone dead in his paddock has shortened my tolerance for people in general. At least you have symptoms to alert you that something is wrong, so presumably you'll have a happier outcome ahead. I certainly hope so.
 
I’d have done what you have done OP.
But I wouldn’t be waiting until autumn until doing an ACTH test.
Mild laminitis is, IMO, often dismissed as concussion. Best to be safe, hope horse is ok.
 
ihatework said:
I’d have done what you have done OP.
But I wouldn’t be waiting until autumn until doing an ACTH test.
Mild laminitis is, IMO, often dismissed as concussion. Best to be safe, hope horse is ok.
Click to expand...

Same here :) I’d rather waste a bit of money and be sure it’s not cushings. If it is, you’ll just have more laminitis to look forward to while you wait.
 
No such thing as mild laminitis and concussion (among other things) causes laminitis so no one is dismissing anything by entertaining the possibility that the hard ground rather than the grass could be the culprit. I'm not worried about spending money on the ACTH test, especially since there is a free voucher available to anyone having a horse tested for the first time so I resent the implication I'd rather let my horse suffer than spend twenty quid or so on a test. It is simply that the test is more accurate if the bloods are taken in the autumn. Any other time, adjustments have to be assumed for the seasonal rise.
 
Hepsibah said:
No such thing as mild laminitis and concussion (among other things) causes laminitis so no one is dismissing anything by entertaining the possibility that the hard ground rather than the grass could be the culprit. I'm not worried about spending money on the ACTH test, especially since there is a free voucher available to anyone having a horse tested for the first time so I resent the implication I'd rather let my horse suffer than spend twenty quid or so on a test. It is simply that the test is more accurate if the bloods are taken in the autumn. Any other time, adjustments have to be assumed for the seasonal rise.
Click to expand...

No need to be so defensive.
I would argue there is mild laminitis - so less severe symptoms like you might be experiencing versus full blown acute attack.
Yes you have to take into account time of year when assessing ACTH, but if you have a cushings horse with laminitis, treating with prascend now might be the difference between reaching autumn or not ....

The one thing now complicating things is if you are in a laminitis situation (or even if not, as its applicable to any pain), is that you might see an elevated ACTH in response to stress.
 
Hepsibah said:
No such thing as mild laminitis and concussion (among other things) causes laminitis so no one is dismissing anything by entertaining the possibility that the hard ground rather than the grass could be the culprit. I'm not worried about spending money on the ACTH test, especially since there is a free voucher available to anyone having a horse tested for the first time so I resent the implication I'd rather let my horse suffer than spend twenty quid or so on a test. It is simply that the test is more accurate if the bloods are taken in the autumn. Any other time, adjustments have to be assumed for the seasonal rise.
Click to expand...

The cut off levels are adjusted accordingly so no point waiting. It’s accurate at any time of the year. I wasn’t implying that you’d rather let your horse suffer just that it’s worthwhile at any time if it’s a possibility. I think you are now coming across as quite rude so I wish you luck but I won’t bother commenting further.
 
Another one to urge getting the ACTH levels assayed now. If you are looking on the laminitis webiste, I'm sure that there is a graph shown on it which shows the seasonal variation in ACTH levels. It is true that PPID horses do show a more dramatic autumn rise in ACTH levels than non PPID horses, but the bloods can be tested any time of the year.

Also, you mention that earlier x rays 'confirmed laminitis' when your horse previously suffered from laminitis. Does that mean there was rotation visible then? It does sound like your vet is being rather relaxed about attending to your horse this time round, mine would have been out like a shot with the portable x ray machine. You may remember from earlier threads where we both posted that I have recently had a laminitis scare with my 7yo, but it turned out to be foot balance issues.

Someone (I think it was GS) has previously mentioned a good emergency DIY frog support method of vetwrapping a roll of vetwrap to the frog area.
 
If I'm coming across as defensive, it's because I'm expected to justify the steps I am taking to ensure my horse's wellbeing and if I'm coming across as rude, that's because you don't like that I am defending myself against your incorrect assumptions.
All this is irrelevant to the question I asked. I know you feel you're trying to be helpful but you're just muddying the waters. My vet, my farrier and I are working together in the best interests of my horse and I'm happy with how things are going. I trust my farrier when he says the hard ground is most likely to be the cause of her pain because he knows her feet and I trust my vet when she says PPID is unlikely because there are no other symptoms that point to it. You have never even seen my horse so I'm going to listen to my chosen professionals if it's all the same.
 
sorry to hear your horse has a problem, please let us know the outcome, and management involved in resolving whatever the problem turns out to be, thanks and good luck with the vet/farrier x
 
Hepsibah said:
If I'm coming across as defensive, it's because I'm expected to justify the steps I am taking to ensure my horse's wellbeing and if I'm coming across as rude, that's because you don't like that I am defending myself against your incorrect assumptions.
All this is irrelevant to the question I asked. I know you feel you're trying to be helpful but you're just muddying the waters. My vet, my farrier and I are working together in the best interests of my horse and I'm happy with how things are going. I trust my farrier when he says the hard ground is most likely to be the cause of her pain because he knows her feet and I trust my vet when she says PPID is unlikely because there are no other symptoms that point to it. You have never even seen my horse so I'm going to listen to my chosen professionals if it's all the same.
Click to expand...

So if you trust your vet and farrier and are happy with how things are going, why post in the first place? It could well be low grade laminitis, from concussion, grass or something like PPID. If your horse has had laminitis in the past, and has got it again then, it is well worth testing for PPID (the free lab test vouchers are out at the moment), even if no other symptoms are present.
 
A raised digital pulse can indicate pain in the feet, which can be a number of things like coffin joint arthritis or a bruised foot for example. Or infection like an abcess. Feeling the hoof for heat isn't a very reliable indicator of laminitis as again this can be caused by inflammation caused by other problems and heat in feet can vary between climatic changes and time of day.

I'd be worried if I had a laminitic already that had a raised pulse but if its been managed carefully and the OP has consulted the vet and farrier then I think she has done about as much as she can particularly if the vet has said to wait.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top