Laminitis and joint injections

poiuytrewq

poiuytrewq

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How big is the risk?
I naively thought the steroid risk was more through oral or IV steroids and that joint medicating was pretty safe.
The horse is old and over weight. It’s a bit catch 22 getting the weight off is hard with him feeling his hocks. I’m hoping that sorting the hocks out will mean I can do a bit more with him and loose a bit of the weight.
He’s had massive doses of IV steroid in the past and been fine. Does this mean anything? Or is it a high risk every time?
With my recent laminitis history (different horse) I’m terrified of this one going down with it but can’t really see any other way to do things.
He’s having both hocks done on Friday. Would keeping him off grass (he has very little anyway) help at all? I assume not as it would be steroid induced not grass ?
Getting a bit, a lot nervous
 
One of my horses, 17 yr old Warmblood, has his hocks medicated round 9-12 months apart. The vet I use for this is one who is a Performance & sport horse performance specialist. He's been looking after this aspect of my horse for several years. I don't think he has ever mentioned laminitis to me, but he alway drives home the point that we must keep on top of the horses weight. This is understandably as excess weight when a horse has joint issues is not good so the lighter you can keep your horse the better the horse's joints will be.
 
Mine needs injecting but vet won't do it, as she's previously had laminitis they said the risk was too great and could finish her off. I just bute and light hacking now instead.
 
Get the weight off him before he has the hock steroid injections - my vet would not agree to give them to an overweight horse in any case. She will ask the owner to get x kg off the horse before proceeding due to lami risk.

Alternatively, how about the gel injections (Arthrimed)? Spendier, but longer lasting and they are not steroidal, so the lami risk is reduced.
 
My vet has always said the risk is very small. In fact they don’t even mention it at the time (only if asked), they just put it as a warning on the discharge notes.
Andy Bathe did a study on the risks I believe.
 
I discussed it with two different vets and it was considered small compared to oral/IV steroids.
He did say it might limit the number of joints done in one go at this time of year but we only ever needed to do one at any time anyway (hock/coffin joint and annular ligament all injected at some point).

I have always kept of grass (plus kept the joint a bit more still) for 24 hours anyway but he hasn't been overweight either.
 
I Just can’t get the weight off. He piled it on last summer and we have struggled since. He gets no proper hard feed. A handful of chaff and speedibeet for supplements, soaked hay and very little over night grass.
 
Can you track/muzzle?
F, is a probably metabolic, retired, 27yo native, we are assisted by him not having the best of teeth anymore but the track makes a massive difference to him.

I would certainly consider only doing one a time.
 
I personally wouldn’t use steroids on a previous laminitic. The risk is to great for me, mine was a deaths door with laminitis. If he’s overweight could you restrict grass any way at all for starters? Could you ask your vet to try levothyroxin? I used that as an extra boost for the metabolism and weight loss while mine was still recovering. He lost a lot of the stubborn fatty bits with it.
 
Gel injections! Made a much bigger difference to the fat appaloosa than steroids and lower risk.

But if you are going with steroids then blood test insulin results first. I had her on her normal field before the vet came so the insulin was representative of her usual food intake. Levels fine, but as we needed steroids into SI I also muzzled her for 48 hours after.
 
holeymoley said:
I personally wouldn’t use steroids on a previous laminitic. The risk is to great for me, mine was a deaths door with laminitis. If he’s overweight could you restrict grass any way at all for starters? Could you ask your vet to try levothyroxin? I used that as an extra boost for the metabolism and weight loss while mine was still recovering. He lost a lot of the stubborn fatty bits with it.
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He’s never been laminitic, even slightly *touch wood*
I literally can’t give him less grass, it’s too bare a field to muzzle and he only has a teeny area.
When I say fat, he’s not obese like you see these show horses but he’s definitely bigger than I’d like him to be. He doesn’t have fat pads or anything.
I’ll look up Levothyroxin as I’ve never heard of it and chat to the vet about it.
I’ll also look up gel injections
I can certainly do one at a time, it was originally only one that I was planning but everyone told me to get both done together.
 
We did this.

My retired girl had a joint injection into her hoof - she was lame due to arthritis that was because of a rotated pedal bone from laminitis many years before. So major high risk. Vet really really didn’t want to do it, but she was so lame even in the field that we either injected (with the tiniest amount of steroid ever!) or the horse was pts. I had to sign a document to say I understood the risks.

We did it. I kept her in for a day or two... she was fine. I haven’t injected since - it gave her the boost she needed for it all to settle down and she is field sound and happy on Boswellia alone. Sometimes she hoons around and is hobbly for a day or two but it soon resolves and she has learned her limitations. Our younger gelding looks after her and she has been sounder and happier since he arrived - he does the worst of the disciplining for her so she doesn’t have to lunge and chase naughty ponies who won’t listen (making herself lame in the process!).
 
The risk may be classed as slight but it is still risk and personally I'd be discussing alternative treatments. With an older horse I've known vets want to do an acth test to check the horse doesn't have PPID and is therefore at a much higher risk, and personally I'd also want x-rays done to be sure it is arthritis and where most needed to be medicated.
 
Mine has cushings and EMS and has had the steroid injections. However, he is worked 5-6 days a week and I keep him fit and skinny. I risk it as it enables me to do more work with him which helps keep his weight down as he will not eat his meds! Unfortunately, it is a catch 22 situation.
 
I highly recommend hydrogel injections over steroids, my horse had them for arthiritis in the hocks, pastern and coffin joints, as the vet said they didnt break down over time like typical steroids would, almost two years on and he's still doing really well, hacking 4-5 times a week

Although they are significantly more expensive than steroids.
 
My cushings horse had steroid injections to both hocks several times. It made a huge difference to him. I use a big specialist equine hospital, discussed with the ver who said it was a very slight risk and never had a problem. this was several years ago so treatment might have changed but it kept the old boy painfree and in light work for several years.
 
JenTaz said:
I highly recommend hydrogel injections over steroids, my horse had them for arthiritis in the hocks, pastern and coffin joints, as the vet said they didnt break down over time like typical steroids would, almost two years on and he's still doing really well, hacking 4-5 times a week

Although they are significantly more expensive than steroids.
Click to expand...

Sorry to jump on this thread!

I'm in a similar sitch with this atm with my welsh cob. When you say significantly more expensive, how much are we looking at?

Thanks
Alex
 
Defo second the recommendation for the gel injections. We had two veterans at home requiring hock injections for mild OA. The fit, active one with no cushings and no history of laminitis has steroids but the cushinoid one had arthrimed, despite never having had laminitis, because we didn’t think it was worth the risk. The arthrimed is definitely ££ than the steroid, but it does also last longer so there’s a cost/benefit there, plus every joint injection risks infection so fewer injections also reduces that risk.
 
I've had a horse come down with lami after a steroid jab and I just wouldn't risk it with an overweight horse

It was an absolutely horrific episode and full blown laminitis in a big warmblood is not something I would wish on my worst enemy
 
I had mine injected 3 times, luckily no lami but she was a good weight. I kept her off the grass for 48 hours after the injections anyway as that was the advise given to me by my vet.

Another Horse at the yard was slightly overweight, I don't want to scare you too much. But the Horse did come down with lami after one injection, it was such a severe case the Horse was PTS.
 
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