Laminitis and snow

[milliethemoo]

I have been told that snow and heavy frost can bring on laminitis. Is this so ?

 

[Shanny]

Hi Milliethemoo.

My farrier told me this too, but didn't explain the reasons why!?

I am sure I've read somewhere that frosty grass can cause colic as well.

 

[kellyeaton]

i have never heard snow can cause lammi but yes certainly frosty grass can triger it what it is when the grass is frosty the sun warms it up and defrosts it when the sun is doing this it causes all the sugars in thr grass to rise to the top of the grass thats why it causes lammi. if you have a frosty cold day with no sun you are safer because the grass thraws on its own!

 

[teddyt]

I think frost then sunny days increases the sugar in grass because the light triggers photosynthesis but because it is too cold the grass doesnt grow so the sugar builds up in the grass. Also, stressed grass accumulates sugar so snow might stress the grass?

 

[alisonpook]

I think I read recently that there is a thought that the cold from the snow / frost etc may have an adverse effect in some laminitis prone horses and that some horses find leg wraps beneficial in cold weather. My Cushings horse now has thermatex leg warmers on if turned out on cold days and I have put him a large straw 'square' down to stand and eat his hay on. Magnetic bell boots were also mentioned as being useful.

 

[TarrSteps]

It is the change in temperature that's supposed to precipitate laminitis Or is it just from a grazing perspective?

I'm just curious why horses that live in snowy climates aren't foundering every day of the week? In fact, from anecdotal evidence, I'd say it seems to be LESS of a problem in places like that, although that probably has to do with differences in grazing, popular horse types etc.

 

[alisonpook]

Hi - Sorry should have been a little clearer. My info was taken from a thread on the metabolic site which referred to the effect of cold on chronic laminitics. It has been noted that some chronic laminitics become uncomfortable in cold weather but unfortunately the mechanism causing the discomfort is unknown. As this was US based the few degrees of frost in the Uk may well be a different matter to the plummeting temperatures over there. Sorry didn't mean to scaremonger.

 

[Tiggy1]

Mine has been turned out with a haynet with no ill effects.
I thought it was the frost and sun causing sugar issue not snow.

 

[milliethemoo]

thanks for all your replys that makes sense as the pony was eating defrosted grass around the edges on a sunny day. will not let that happen again !!.

 

[PapaFrita]

Ages ago I went to a lecture at Rossdales about laminitis, and that there was evidence to suggest that extreme cold was actually beneficial to a laminitic's feet. I think, as someone suggested, that the problem comes from eating frosty grass rather than the temperature of the ground.

 

[alleycat]

I am interested to see this as I believe that extreme cold CAN cause hoof problems of this kind, based on an experience one winter with my pony mare.

She was not lamnitic, and normally lived out with other ponies. One winter we had an extremely cold snap; snow followed by freezing weather with very low ground temperatures. I noticed that she seemed a bit pottery, as if her feet weren't quite comfortable, and brought her into a spare stable to warm them up. (The YO laughed at me, it was such an odd notion; but my own feet felt like blocks of ice in my wellies, and she looked like I felt, so to speak.)
She went back out later that afternoon and had no further problems, but when the farrier next trimmed her he asked whether she had had an episode of laminitis and showed me bruising or staining in the trimmed horn which he said suggested an attack.

I therefore think that if by bad luck a horse's feet do drop below a certain temperature, perhaps by standing still too long on frozen ground, damage can occur, and this damage mimics laminitis, just as we can get chilblains from extreme cold, though this isn't something that happens routinely.

Edited to say that I wouldn't normally worry about turning a horse out in snow, etc., but following that experience I would watch it more carefully now; and if it shifted its weight or looked uncomfy, I'd take that seriously.

 

[kellyeaton]

the only reason i would say the cold ground was good for lammi feet his the first thing i was always told to by my vet was if i horse has pulses give bute bring in and cold hose feet. but then i can see your point of view awelll alleycat. i dont think it is the frosty grass i think it is all about when the sun is defrosting it!

 

[Jo C]

All I can say is that both my vet and farrier have warned me about turning out on frosty/frozen grass and my farrier had 2 new cases of laminitis yesterday. Coincidence?

 

[Cuffey]

Interesting thread and lots of good advice
ie that sugars are stored in grass on sunny frosty days when it is too cold for grass to grow. So the day after a really sunny frosty day could have high sugar grass. Dull frosty days out are safer.
That leg warmers can help with older/insulin resistant ponies and horses.
Leg warmers help us to maintain good blood circulation to our feet--same for ponies
My pony who shows some of the signs of Cushings (long curly coat but does not drink more than normal) had a difficult time in early December when we had 2 weeks of frost, he did not follow his friend down the grazing just stood in one place in the paddock looking miserable but eating hay delivered to his spot, his feet were sore and he just pottered--however it did not seem to be a laminitis attack, his heels were sore, he kept resting alternate hind feet and a trim recently showed no signs of lami. Vet just offered Danilon but it had no effect. Leg warmers at night however did help.
We have had further cold weather and this time (touches wood) he seems OK--seen bucking a few days ago!!
He has extra magnesium and agnus castis in his diet with some Hi Fi Lite and Speedibeet and top Spec Antilam
The only thing I have done differently since early December is clip and rug him including neck rug, his coat was so long he was not getting dry and when the sun was out he was sweating. Farrier took minimum hoof off at the last trim. He seems much more comfortable and happy without his winter woolies! Still got his leg warmers on though!

 

[jvoyce]

This is an interesting one for me. My horse has acute laminitis that started when we had the first big freeze 4 weeks ago. He has been diagnosed with insulin resistance/metabolic syndrome so has a low starch diet and turnout with no grass so there can be no dietary reason for this episode. We'd wondered whether it could be triggered by concussion on frozen ground but maybe it is as simple as the cold ?

 

[alisonpook]

Lliedi - My vet says they tend to get sudden batches of horses with laminitis after frosty spells - they had a surge of cases in early January - and he feels some of them are as a result of concussion on the hard , frosty ground .

 

[teddyt]

[ QUOTE ]
the only reason i would say the cold ground was good for lammi feet his the first thing i was always told to by my vet was if i horse has pulses give bute bring in and cold hose feet. but then i can see your point of view awelll alleycat. i dont think it is the frosty grass i think it is all about when the sun is defrosting it!

[/ QUOTE ]
It used to be recommended to cold hose feet or stand in a stream but latest research says not to as it can actually make laminitis worse. There has been some research into extreme cold inhibiting the development of laminitis but this is in the first 72 hours, which has no clinical signs. This research was carried out on ponies that had experimentally induced laminitis, i.e. they knew it was coming. Once the horse is showing clinical signs of laminitis cold is thought to make it worse as it restricts the blood flow to the feet even further.

 

[jvoyce]

Trouble is, whatever the cause the outcome is the same. It seems that this bout is the final straw for my boy - vet's coming to see him tomorrow

 

[gothdolly]

Oh no, Lliedi, are you OK? Is it really the end for your boy?

Im struggling with laminitis prevention at the moment - my lad has had it two year running in Feb/March.

 

[suejs001]

Hello,
Snow can cause laminitis, it basically freezes the foot, the blood vessles are then damaged blood cannot get to the foot and the lamini starts to seperate from the pedal bone. Some horses have more sensitive feet than others and it is the compaction of the snow / ice in the hoof (in the shod horse) I have first hand experience of this from the snow from last year, my horse got acute laminitis and this became chronic I nearly lost him. the pedal bone rotated and sunk all from the snow basically freezing his hoof.

Please be aware that this is not the same cause of laminitis as frosty grass. Frosty grass is a trigger as it contains high levels of NSC fructans which are sugars which then upset the gut flora as normal laminitis. Also... (as if this was not enough!!!) The hard ground can cause concussion.

I am petrified of the snow and my ponies feet / frozen grass etc ...

 

[Tnavas]

If this is the case how come the Shetland, Exmoor & Dartmor ponies aren't all suffering from lami? Laminitis never used to be this prevelant in the era I had my ponies - the difference though was that we didn't feed anything except some hay on snowy days. They wintered out, with no covers, if we hard fed all that was available were oats, barley, Spillers Horse & Pony cubes, Bran and Sugarbeet. We didn't strip graze but allowed our horses and ponies free access to roam their field and exercise when they felt like it. INteresingly we didn't add masses of supplements either. Yet our horses and ponies were sound, worked far harder than they seem to these days - we would ride to pony club, shows, to the hunt meet and generally didn't hard feed.

Nowadays everyone seems to be obsessed with feeding - something - often a processed feed, strip grazes so that the horse has limited space and then riders wonder why they get hyper to ride - they've not been able to have a hoon around. Exercise is one of the most important parts of maintaining a healthy horse. A horse on strip grazing can't do that.

The horses in my Signature live out 24/7 are not covered have no hard feed, last winter had no hay as the field as there was plenty of 'Hay on the Stalk' all they do have is a large multi mineral block that is left out in the paddock - they go through a couple a year.

 

[FinkleyAlex]

At the risk of sounding completely thick - does sunlight have the same effect on snow as it does frost? My boy had lammi about 5 years ago and fortunately (fingers crossed) hasn't had it again but I try to be as informed as possible as I know it could come back at any time. He also has athritis so I try to avoid keeping him in unless absolutely necessary. As we have already had a fair bit of snow up in Norfolk, should I be keeping him in on sunny days?

 

[AngieandBen]

If this is the case how come the Shetland, Exmoor & Dartmor ponies aren't all suffering from lami? Laminitis never used to be this prevelant in the era I had my ponies - the difference though was that we didn't feed anything except some hay on snowy days. They wintered out, with no covers, if we hard fed all that was available were oats, barley, Spillers Horse & Pony cubes, Bran and Sugarbeet. We didn't strip graze but allowed our horses and ponies free access to roam their field and exercise when they felt like it. INteresingly we didn't add masses of supplements either. Yet our horses and ponies were sound, worked far harder than they seem to these days - we would ride to pony club, shows, to the hunt meet and generally didn't hard feed.

Nowadays everyone seems to be obsessed with feeding - something - often a processed feed, strip grazes so that the horse has limited space and then riders wonder why they get hyper to ride - they've not been able to have a hoon around. Exercise is one of the most important parts of maintaining a healthy horse. A horse on strip grazing can't do that.

The horses in my Signature live out 24/7 are not covered have no hard feed, last winter had no hay as the field as there was plenty of 'Hay on the Stalk' all they do have is a large multi mineral block that is left out in the paddock - they go through a couple a year.

In a way I completley agree! But, a lot of our pasture has been grown for fattening cattle My native ponies live out, although restricted from April until the first frosts ( they still have at least an acre)I do use a track system which keeps them moving.

I don't take them off frosty or snowy grass, never have done, but then they don't get fed, clipped or rugged either!

 

[Lotty]

My mare had lami earlier this year so I don't turn her out until lunchtime. My vet said its once the grass starts to thaw that the sugar content becomes very high that is the danger for those prone to lami or similar.

 

[AngieandBen]

My mare had lami earlier this year so I don't turn her out until lunchtime. My vet said its once the grass starts to thaw that the sugar content becomes very high that is the danger for those prone to lami or similar.

See, I was always lead to believe that lunchtime is the worst time to turnout as the sun is at its highest, therefore sugar levels are higher as the've had a few hours to work?!! If I had a problem I would be turning out at 4pm and bringing them in around 8/9am.

 

[Daisy2]

Oh its such a dilema, I have muzzled and stripped grazed my guys up until two days ago because the ground was so hard on the strip I felt it would be better for them to have the whole field, softer, can move around and access to the stream instead of frozen buckets which freeze as soon as I defrost, anyway, my heart is in my mouth, I just hope that they stay sound, check for heat in the mornings, no hard feed or hay and unrugged but 13 acres of grass...No stable facilties so trying to choose the best of two evils hard ground no grass or soft ground and lots of it...

 

[brucea]

I have a chronic "professional" laminitic and I havea "recreational" laminitic. In both cases grass is an issue

They are both out in the snow now enjoying a normal herd life - perfectly fine. A prolonged period of snow is good for them I think. They do get grass, but they are having to work very hard to get a significant amount.

 

[Luci07]

Hunt for the other very recent post on laminitis - the person whose horse was affected had an arab with thin walls and the snow had balled up in the foot, frozen and caused this. So in theory horses whom are barefoot/thick walls would not have this issue. I put "legwarmers" on my older mare now as a matter of course - can't hurt and she is being an almight wooz about being turned out in the snow for a couple of hours (and she HAS to be because that is the only exercise she will get till it stops freezing!)

 

[Kokopelli]

Laminitis is basically a lack of blood flow to the hoofs, the cold weather can restrict this blood flow further as the veins constrict in the cold which is why this cold weather may cause laminitis.

 

[Lotty]

Laminitis is basically a lack of blood flow to the hoofs, the cold weather can restrict this blood flow further as the veins constrict in the cold which is why this cold weather may cause laminitis.

My farrier told me this so I only turn my mare out for an hour.