Laminitis, Box Rest/ Working them through it????

[zoelouisem]

Evening All,
This is just to ask your opinions really, Im not say that a certain way is wrong, just wondering how things can change so much??

15 years ago my sister got a 19 year old ex-showpony we didnt know much about his history ect, so when he came to us very lean we put about feeding him (niavly, as wed never seen laminitis before) anyway before long he had a lami attack!! We had the vet to treat him who prescibed him fiadyne, acp tablets and slow steady work (twice a day lunging steadily on big circles for half hour at a time), This worked really well for him there were bad attacks but would recover fairly quickly. Anyway we learnt how to manage the the lami well and he was PTS at a ripe old age of 31 due to old age.

Ive since taken on a pony with a tendancy towards laminits and have had him since may, hes not had an attack with me and has lived out pretty much all summer without a muzzle on in 20+ acre fields, he is worked well for a minimum of an hour a day 6 days a week, when they swapped to the grassier field recently he did get slightly hot feet and a pulse and as i didnt know the new treatment for attacks upped his worked to lunging in the day time and daughter still riding for good hour in the evening (he was never sore) the pulse heat diaapeared within 3-5 days.

Now ive just been chatting to a lady with a full NF at the yard and out for 6 months theis year shes been having lami attacks and on box rest for 3 of them. I was shocked theyd changed the treatment so much since 15 years ago!! And that her pony has such slow recovery!!! There pony has come in after 2 hours out with a muzzle with heat and a pulse?!
Non of these ponies have had rotation of the pedal bone.

Anyway sorry for long post french fancies to those that have got this far!!!!

Just really want your opinons, experiences with lami attacks recent of long time ago.

Not wanting to fight with anybody, im not saying the box rest was worng was just windering really??

 

[deicinmerlyn]

Laminitis is an extremely painful disease. Newer research indeed suggests that animals with laminitis should be in on a deep bed and Vet called.

People used to starve laminitis years ago, we know this is wrong too. Regular work, watching weight and diet, no starch, sugars cereal etc.

There is lots of up todate info on various websites if you google including the laminitis trust.

 

[LucyPriory]

Had dinner last night with vet and discussed just this. Years ago the strategy was to work them - with nerve blocks if needed. High failure rate.

However current rest them for months in a box also has a less than impressive success rate.

There is a middle ground. Read Founder Prevention and Cure by Jamie Jackson.

However if you are working with a lami prone horse/pony rather than one in the middle of an attack then work is a good strategy. It helps manage any insulin resistance and helps keeps their weight under control.

Diet too is key - years ago the molasses laden mixes and chaffs didn't exist.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/lameness-case-study-8-weeks-6-days.html

The horse attached to the feet in the above blog post had got to the convex sole stage of lami before the management regime was changed. 3 months later the horse is back in work 5 or so days a week and doing really well. No box rest was used.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

If you work a horse with active laminitis you are likely to cause destabilisation of the pedal bone as the dead laminae do not provide the support it needs. The horse should be box rested with a deep bed and also possibly foam sole supports, as well as pain relief etc. To work an active laminitic is cruel and counterproductive imo. The horse with lami is systemically ill and should be treated as such until it recovers.

 

[Umbongo]

I think it is the same with most things now, there has been more research into ailments and diseases over the years.

My lecturer told me when she was a girl (some 15-20 years ago) working at a riding school, the ponies were made to work through the laminitis. She remembered having to lead ponies around that were so bad that the pedal bone was pretty much pushing through the sole of the hoof. She said it was horrible to be in that situation knowing what we know now...but it was the done thing to work them through the laminitis (with a high failure rate).

Luckily I have not had much experience with laminitis. I would obviously work the lami prone horses to prevent an attack and keep their weight down. But I don't think I could ever work a horse that is in the middle of an attack.

 

[spotty_pony]

My boy had mild Laminitis a couple of years ago as we were at a new yard on richer pasture than what he was used to and. My vet advised me to put him in a starvation paddock and give him nothing else apart from his feed balancer - he wasn't even allowed a carrot! After a couple of days, he was no longer lame and I was told to start working him to help to get him slimmer. He lost the excess weight and *touches wood* we've never had any signs of him being Laminitic since.

Now, I am extremely careful with him, especially during Spring and Autumn when the grass is richer. He now has hay, rather than haylage as it is less fattening and is on restricted grazing grazing during the Spring and Autumn. He is also kept very fit, to prevent him from becoming overweight.

 

[zoelouisem]

Oh yer im not saying its worng and im working a cronicly lame pony. As i said the pony i have now has a tendacy towards attacks, before i had him he was verging on it i think the owner caught it just in time. I now work him so he can carry on living in a field over the summer, i do have him in from lunch time till the evening so he can rest before my daughter rides him. Hes now in at night and is not fat but is a MandM, he does work pretty hard she takes him to the park, although the like will soon be stopping this sometimes for 2 hours she ride him in the school then well do a road ride after. I like to keep him fit ,she regualry goes to shows, we going for a beach ride next week and Xcountry schooling. This also helps keep his weight at a good level. He is fed on Safe and Sound he has a glossy coat and is abviously in good nic, the vet even commeted on how good he looked espeacially for his Type (sec A) and wished they all looked like him!!

When our old pony had it we gave him the treatment as per the vet, which is different to todays treament im not saying that it is wrong im just asking opions/ experiences out of interest?

 

[zoelouisem]

My boy had mild Laminitis a couple of years ago as we were at a new yard on richer pasture than what he was used to and. My vet advised me to put him in a starvation paddock and give him nothing else apart from his feed balancer - he wasn't even allowed a carrot! After a couple of days, he was no longer lame and I was told to start working him to help to get him slimmer. He lost the excess weight and *touches wood* we've never had any signs of him being Laminitic since.

Now, I am extremely careful with him, especially during Spring and Autumn when the grass is richer. He now has hay, rather than haylage as it is less fattening and is on restricted grazing grazing during the Spring and Autumn. He is also kept very fit, to prevent him from becoming overweight.

See this is the sort of treatment i was used to, the lady at the yard was advised to box rest for 6 weeks after her pony had a lami attack!! Her pony has had the attacks pretty much all summer. They are doing everything right but the as the pony gets better there still not allowd to work it and its gets better and then seems to get bad, i was wondering why its not allowd to start working when the pain eases?? It hasnt got a roatated pedal bone (had xrays)

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

If you work a horse with active laminitis you are likely to cause destabilisation of the pedal bone as the dead laminae do not provide the support it needs. The horse should be box rested with a deep bed and also possibly foam sole supports, as well as pain relief etc. To work an active laminitic is cruel and counterproductive imo. The horse with lami is systemically ill and should be treated as such until it recovers.

Totally second that. I have a laminitic with rotation of one of her front feet. Loaned her out and they worked her with it, they did not even tell me
I try keep her foot/feet safe by all year round restricted grazing, regular gentle work (she is 20yrs old now), a diet of mostly hay and high fibre feed

 

[PeterNatt]

Laminitis is a very painfull condition for a horse. A horse with Laminitis should be treated as an emergency and the vet called in immediately.
So as to avoid an attack of laminitis a horses weight should be kept down and it should be kept on minimum grazing (i.e strip grazing) on non-rye grass. There are many things that can cause an outbreak of Laminitis such as Insulin Intolerence, Cushings Disease, an infection or emerging encysted small red worm.
A horse with Laminitis should have foot supports fitted and be kept in a stable on a very thick bed and prescribed pain killers. It will need to remain in the stable for at least 4 weeks after all lameness has gone. X rays should be taken to check for any rotation or dropping of the pedal bone and the farrier will need to see the x rays so that they can shoe the horse correctly.

 

[amandaco2]

working a horse with acute laminitis is cruel and wouldnt make sense- the pedal bone is at increased risk of rotation and sole penetration, not to mention the severe pain a horse would suffer
working a recovered horse will be very beneficial- too many fat over fed underworked horses are around...............

 

[soloequestrian]

I remember the days of forced exercise and standing them in cold streams. Thankfully didn't come across too many cases.
There seem to be two approaches now, which haven't intersected in this country yet:
Laminitis Trust type approach - box rest for at least a month after the pain has gone, hay only, deep bed and painkillers, often support shoes (heart bars).
Jaime Jackson type approach - minimal painkillers, allow them as much movement as they are willing to do, strict diet, bare feet.
Neither suggest working a horse with an acute attack, but the second obviously promotes movement as helping recovery, so gentle exercise of horse which isn't actually in pain would be a good thing.
My mare had post-operative laminitis this year and was initially on box rest, painkillers and ACP. I read a lot about the subject, and decided to go down the JJ route when she had got over the worst of her operation, not least because she would have gone insane when she came off ACP. She went out as soon as possible and hasn't looked back.

 

[brighteyes]

If you could see what was going on inside the hoof you'd have the answer! If the attack was severe enough to completely separate the laminae, no way would you be able to move the horse. If the chain of in-hoof separation events is halted, never got going properly or hasn't actually started, then this is where all these work managed cases have been succsessful. Our Cushing's affected pony had a mild footiness which we now know was a very early caught attack and the vet's advice, only 9 years ago almost to the date was 'ride her little socks off' in our school. This we did and we only became confounded when is was the Cushing's driving the attacks (her diet and regime was absolutely on lockdown from when we got her because I don't do even moderately round!) and the vet didn't point it out to us. The HHO forum helped us get another three years with her but once there is a tendency to laminitis, the predisposition never goes and it can be any trigger which sets them off.

I had a friend who would always bute and work through early stage/lgl and in the case of this pony it seemed to be the answer.

 

[zoelouisem]

Ah see i didnt realise there was 2 approaches now to laminitis, i can see why you wouldnt move a crippled pony with rotated pedal bone, im not silly and i was never saying anybody should!!
Yes 15 years ago thats what we were told to do as were most people, and to be honest it did work i understand that times change.

My pony hasnt had an attack in the whole time ive had him, ive used work to prevent it, i agree there are to many fat ponys not doing enough work, so i make sure he is worked 6 days a week, hes also a laxy little begger so keeping him fit benifits my daughter as hes more forward. As i said before the vet commented on his perfect weight and conditions espeacially for a native type!! His work load has also ment that he can carry on living out pretty much all summer on not so good grass but he has been out in large fields!!

What i didnt understand was why they had to stay in for so long after they became sound when there is no rotation of the pedal (xrays confirmed) when surely very steady exercise and moving around would help blood circulation and weight loss once the pony was comfortable to do so. I would go down the JJ route if i ever had an attack now.

Im only asking people experiences ect. as the lady at my yard has litilary had her pony on box rest for months as she seems to keep getting attacks and i was having a conversation about attacks in general. as she wants to exercise to help weight loss as the pony is now sound but vet keeps on insisting on complete box rest. I did not at any point advise her to work a crippled pony we were just chatting about how different treatment was 15-20 years ago. She is getting a second opinion next week as she does want to start exercise very soon but wouldnt go against a vet. I will tell her to read up on both routes so she can chat to her vet about this.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

My vet told me that although they can be pain free and pulse free it is known that there is a high likelihood of relapse in the first moth and that is why they are told to rest for longer than seems necessary. The dead laminae need time to regenerate and restabilise and it is known that this process takes a few weeks. Some cases recover more quickly but a lot depends on the cause of the attack in the first place.