Laminitis, differing advice?

[majors]

Hi, my 18 year old Irish boy has gone down with laminitis, vet staight there pads on feet. Three weeks in he is still on Bute but massively improved. My question is feeding, he had on vets advice been on 5kg of soaked hay a day. He had lost 55lbs so looks pretty thin. The vet had says to reduce it to 4.5kg. Articles I have read says ad-lib hay. I won’t go against vet advice but wondered if anyone had experience to share thank you

 

[AmyMay]

Why does the vet recommend feeding less hay?

 

[Lucky788]

How big is the horse 5kg doesn’t seem much x

 

[majors]

He is just under half a ton, he is a connie cross so a heavy type. The vet wants him to lose more weight. He is now having carrots and turnips. He has 2 feeds of hi fi lite as well. I just think he lost enough in a short time?

 

[splashgirl45]

depends how big he is on how much hay to feed. if he is big i would say that is too little. i would look at the laminitis website and then question your vet. the 13 hand pony at my yard has 4 haynets spread over 24 hours and has 4 lbs in each one, thats 1.8kg in each net so more than 5 kg a day....and this is on vets advice so the pony has something inside her for a good proportion of the day. her last net is usually 10.30pm

 

[splashgirl45]

He is just under half a ton, he is a connie cross so a heavy type. The vet wants him to lose more weight. He is now having carrots and turnips. He has 2 feeds of hi fi lite as well. I just think he lost enough in a short time?

how tall is he? and are you sure he is now thin or are you used to him being very chunky, i wouldnt say connie crosses are heavy types. , you can check out the scales of weight on the blue cross site i think.

 

[EllenJay]

Has the vet advised giving carrots? They are very high in sugars and imho should be avoided. Weight doesn't mean a lot - what is his condition score? He sounds like he is still overweight. Supplement the reduction in hay with straw if you are worried about no forage.
You need to be strong, and do everything you can to get him to lose weight.

 

[Lucky788]

It should be 1.5% of body weight for weight loss I think
Blue cross have a great guide fat horse slim think it is, I’d get a second opinion I think too

 

[Goldenstar]

You should not be giving carrots and turnips they are too high in sugar .
I would follow the vets advice .
Why don’t you ring him and have a talk about it .

 

[majors]

Thanks I will look at the blue cross. Yeah vet advised carrots and turnips which surprised me. He is 16hh and the other half is cob 😀 just seemed odd that other people seem to half been told ad lib hay. Thanks all, I have never had. Horse with it in 40 years of horses.

 

[majors]

You should not be giving carrots and turnips they are too high in sugar .
I would follow the vets advice .
Why don’t you ring him and have a talk about it .

He told me to feed carrots and turnips which I thought was odd, I only saw him today, just odd that others have been told to feed ad-lib soaked hay

 

[splashgirl45]

i would question feeding carrots and turnips to a horse with laminitis. i would get a second opinion as your vet seems to be advising very differently to others...

 

[dreamcometrue]

I have a Connie cross with recently diagnosed EMS who is on a weight loss regime as advised by my vet. She doesn’t have laminitis but has once in the past. She is 14hh, being kept in and on 6.5 kg of soaked hay per day. She is losing weight slowly.

4.5 kg is very low. Are you soaking the hay?

 

[majors]

i would question feeding carrots and turnips to a horse with laminitis. i would get a second opinion as your vet seems to be advising very differently to others...

Thanks it’s so hard, like a doctor you just accept what they say but I have to be sure

 

[majors]

I have a Connie cross with recently diagnosed EMS who is on a weight loss regime as advised by my vet. She doesn’t have laminitis but has once in the past. She is 14hh, being kept in and on 6.5 kg of soaked hay per day. She is losing weight slowly.

4.5 kg is very low. Are you soaking the hay?

Yeah I thought 6kg would enable him to lose the rest of the weight more slowly. Yeah all hour is soaked for hours

 

[ihatework]

You say horse is 16hh Connie x Cob weighing just under 500kg?

That sounds about right (with the obvious caveat that I haven’t seen the horse).

1.5% of body weight would be 7.5kg.
Personally I’d cut the carrots and turnips (what a bizarre thing for a vet to say), and increase the well soaked hay a bit, but deffo not ad-lib.

Once the horse is fully sound I’d also get a Cushings test done

 

[meleeka]

I’d change vets. Any vet recommending carrots to a laminitic needs to go back to vet school! Are you feeding hay in a small holed net? You are going to end up with ulcers on top of everything else at this rate.

ETA - definitely test for Cushings.

 

[majors]

You say horse is 16hh Connie x Cob weighing just under 500kg?

That sounds about right (with the obvious caveat that I haven’t seen the horse).

1.5% of body weight would be 7.5kg.
Personally I’d cut the carrots and turnips (what a bizarre thing for a vet to say), and increase the well soaked hay a bit, but deffo not ad-lib.

Once the horse is fully sound I’d also get a Cushings test done

Yeah that what we worked out, 7.5kg as right, I understand he wanted a rapid weight loss initially but seems hard to continue after three weeks. He has no others signs of Cushing but thinks insulin resistance, thank you

 

[majors]

I’d change vets. Any vet recommending carrots to a laminitic needs to go back to vet school! Are you feeding hay in a small holed net? You are going to end up with ulcers on top of everything else at this rate.

ETA - definitely test for Cushings.

Trickle net at night hayledge nets in the day, although he is ripping them. I think I will try and get another opinion

 

[meleeka]

Yeah that what we worked out, 7.5kg as right, I understand he wanted a rapid weight loss initially but seems hard to continue after three weeks. He has no others signs of Cushing but thinks insulin resistance, thank you

They may only have one symptom, in your case laminitis. My pony only had it mildly in her hinds but tested positive for Cushings despite no other symptoms.

Laminitis is about much more than weight.

 

[majors]

They may only have one symptom, in your case laminitis. My pony only had it mildly in her hinds but tested positive for Cushings despite no other symptoms.

Laminitis is about much more than weight.

Thanks, will get him sorted once he Is sound, daft thing is we have been so careful the last 18 months because he was older, have kept his weight down fed everything suitable for a laminitic. He has been seen by vets for injections, I always ask what they think not one has said he was too fat

 

[Pearlsasinger]

When you speak to your 2nd opinion vet, I would ask about supplementing the forage with plain oat straw chaff, which will allow him to satisfy his hunger/need to nibble without adding so much to his calorie intake.

 

[meleeka]

Thanks, will get him sorted once he Is sound, daft thing is we have been so careful the last 18 months because he was older, have kept his weight down fed everything suitable for a laminitic. He has been seen by vets for injections, I always ask what they think not one has said he was too fat

That would be a warning sign for me (with the benefit of hindsight of course). If he has Cushings it’s that that’s causing it and nothing to do with your management of him. I know I was relieved when mine was diagnosed as it wasn’t something I’d done wrong. Mine has been Medicated and laminitis free for years now so it’s not such a bad thing.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks, will get him sorted once he Is sound, daft thing is we have been so careful the last 18 months because he was older, have kept his weight down fed everything suitable for a laminitic. He has been seen by vets for injections, I always ask what they think not one has said he was too fat

If there is an underlying condition, they don't need to be fat to contract laminitis. I would ask for the tests to be done asap, if he needs medication it should help him to recover.

 

[majors]

That would be a warning sign for me (with the benefit of hindsight of course). If he has Cushings it’s that that’s causing it and nothing to do with your management of him. I know I was relieved when mine was diagnosed as it wasn’t something I’d done wrong. Mine has been Medicated and laminitis free for years now so it’s not such a bad thing.

Thanks

 

[vmac66]

My mare is recovering from mild laminitis. She was overweight and vet said 7.5 k of soaked hay a day. She has lost 30 k in just over 3 weeks. I've been giving her the ration split between 5 small nets a day. Definitely no carrots.

 

[fusspot]

Thanks, will get him sorted once he Is sound, daft thing is we have been so careful the last 18 months because he was older, have kept his weight down fed everything suitable for a laminitic. He has been seen by vets for injections, I always ask what they think not one has said he was too fat

Reading this I would definetly test for EMS-my Welsh Sec D was super fit-had been to the regionals 2 days running 3 days before,not overweight but well and went down literally overnight with Lami.Negative Cushings but positive off Glucose test and very high levels-don’t just take the blood test result-mine came back fine but vet was adamant that he had EMS hence the Glucose test which was stupidly high.The blood test does now apparently have a marker which If marker is high they are non EMS but if Low they are.

I would definetly drop the carrots etc as very high in sugar.Too quick weight loss is also not good-if you have relatively old hay which is soaked for about 4 hours then they are not getting anything from hay anyway.They will store fat if starved as well as getting Ulcers.I would up well soaked hay a bit.You can get some good healthy treats now which is what I used.

I would also change from Hi Fi Lite to Hi Fi Molasses Free-there is still a high level of sugar in Hi Fi Lite-there is actually not much difference between Hi Fi and Hi Fi Lite but almost 10% difference between Hi Fi Lite and Molasses Free.Before I changed my boy I spoke to my vet and even she couldn’t believe the difference.Mine went on Hi Fi Molasses Free with some Hi Fibre Nuts and he looked good,wasn’t hungry and sound.If you put the 2 hi fi’s next to each other, you will be surprised at how much more Molasses are in Hi Fi Lite.

Lastly,please don’t beat yourself up that you have done something wrong-I did this and as the vet told me-when they go down like that especially when you have already been trying to prevent, it is more likely Genetic.They are finding more and more that the Welsh type are getting it more than likely down to the way the seasons are changing and horses that basically lived in the past wandering around moors and hills.
Good luck.x

 

[DD]

DO NOT feed ad lib hay ! follow the vets advice, it is very sound. soak the hay for 12 hours.

 

[DD]

Reading this I would definetly test for EMS-my Welsh Sec D was super fit-had been to the regionals 2 days running 3 days before,not overweight but well and went down literally overnight with Lami.Negative Cushings but positive off Glucose test and very high levels-don’t just take the blood test result-mine came back fine but vet was adamant that he had EMS hence the Glucose test which was stupidly high.The blood test does now apparently have a marker which If marker is high they are non EMS but if Low they are.

I would definetly drop the carrots etc as very high in sugar.Too quick weight loss is also not good-if you have relatively old hay which is soaked for about 4 hours then they are not getting anything from hay anyway.They will store fat if starved as well as getting Ulcers.I would up well soaked hay a bit.You can get some good healthy treats now which is what I used.

I would also change from Hi Fi Lite to Hi Fi Molasses Free-there is still a high level of sugar in Hi Fi Lite-there is actually not much difference between Hi Fi and Hi Fi Lite but almost 10% difference between Hi Fi Lite and Molasses Free.Before I changed my boy I spoke to my vet and even she couldn’t believe the difference.Mine went on Hi Fi Molasses Free with some Hi Fibre Nuts and he looked good,wasn’t hungry and sound.If you put the 2 hi fi’s next to each other, you will be surprised at how much more Molasses are in Hi Fi Lite.

Lastly,please don’t beat yourself up that you have done something wrong-I did this and as the vet told me-when they go down like that especially when you have already been trying to prevent, it is more likely Genetic.They are finding more and more that the Welsh type are getting it more than likely down to the way the seasons are changing and horses that basically lived in the past wandering around moors and hills.
Good luck.x

 

[JillA]

If you are trying to remove his risk by diet and weight loss alone you (and probably your vet) are missing the point - starving very rarely helps, and horses need adequate fibre in the gut for gut health. In by far the majority of cases the underlying cause is metabolic, such as Cushings or EMS - at his age and his breeding I'd put money on PPID. (Can't remember where I read it but carrots are not high enough in sugars, and not in the quantities most people feed them, to make a difference BTW)

This is the best source of information by far, I even got my vet to sit up and take it on board, especially where it relates to not shoeing but proper trimming. http://www.thelaminitissite.org/