laminitis headache

B

brandybuck

Member
Joined
26 November 2011
Messages
14
Visit site
Just looking ever deeper into managing this condition, i have 7yo Highland mare only ever had mild cases but at all times of year, this year began in feb after coming back to work, took several months to get her sound, into ridden work then she got through an electric fence (which terrifiy her) onto clover/rye field and in an hour went down with an acute attack. The worst is over but she remains stiff behind and still looks lame on her right hind, always the worst affected foot. She is kept on a track with soaked hay thunderbrook base mix barefoot trimmer not over weight although shed like to be, i cant graze her on this farm anymore as ex-dairy seems all the grass even the specially sown lami paddock is too rich from past fertilsation. Cant find anywhere to move to, yo been a star letting me set up track build shelter etc, so wont go to another yard, no land in kent to rent it seems. Now wondering if i go back to vet, although they have done absolutely nowt for her other than diagnose, maybe ems, but not on previous blood test 18m ago. oh and no insurance for laminitis or anything which may have the merest whiff of it!! Caught in catch 22 need her fitter perhaps to manage the condition, but she doesnt look sound, we go for walks in hand but i am fitter than she is now!! Sorry feel very whingy, head hurts from googling and feel am going round in circles, just want my pony to be happy. anyadvice opinion experience welcome
 
Hi I'm sure you will get some very good advice on here to help you manage this difficult condition. I have been struggling with a pony for a few years now and have eventually got him into a routine where he seems stable and sound. He has had a few very mild pottery episodes this year but nothing like the full blown condition. I think it is a case of finding a feeding regime which the pony can tolerate then keeping them as consistent as possible. I am currently soaking all hay for at least 12 hours, I look for older hay and don't feed any too green or rich, a good vitamin and mineral supplement and a probiotic. I also feed a small amount of magnesium oxide in morning feed.

I have also started him on Metformin a month and a half ago and have now been able to allow him a couple of hours grazing a day on poor grass, previously I have been turnng him out in a woodmulch pen. Things have been going well with this medication so it might be worth asking your vet whether it would help your pony.

My pony was zooming around my arena at full speed this morning throwing huge bucks and generally having a blast, I had to smile as a year ago I never thought he would ever come this sound again. Good luck, it is worth persevering as it can be managed successfully and you will get there x
 
thanks, a friend also suggested metformin she is on a vet run livery yard and they trial it for 6 weeks to kick start the metabolism and then just good management of diet and exercise, will talk to our vet about t his, i have avoided drugs as didnt want to tax her system further but if its a short term option may be worth a try for her. its a long and confusing path so thanks for replying!
 
Hi yes I tried to avoid moving onto long term drugs and got to the point where he would come sound but his diet was so minimal that he had no energy. also he would lapse if we opened a new bale of hay (big bales from same source) and it was the tinyest bit greener than the last bale! There was just no leeway in his threshold for coping with any sugars at all in his diet. Even 30 minutes grazing could trigger a laminitic bout.

I have found the metformin has meant I can just manage him a little bit easier and he seems more his old self because his diet is more nourishing. I'm going to start building up his exercise now with a view to eventually weaning him off the metformin or at least reducing the dose, once his feet have had a good chance to recover. Its not too expensive compared to some other horse drugs so definitely worth a try.....
 
My daughter's Welsh A suffered very badly the year I bought her. Previous owner didn't mention any problems, vetted my yard and agreed she'd be fine although we were on a river bank/flood plane. Within a week she was pottering and I had to get the vet. Luckily we caught it early, only 1 degree of rotation in one front hoof but it meant she couldn't have any grass at all! Moved yards, put her on very limited grazing, all hat was soaked for 12 hours minimum, and we only fed her hi fi lite and fibre nuts in very small quantities. I used Benevit to supplement her lack of vitamins etc. It worked for her and she spent the entire summer living out this year, on restricted grass of course. Unfortunately it seems to be trial and error until you find out what works for you, but the simple method worked for me. Good luck. xx
 
I would definitly speak to your vet about ways you can manage the laminitis as the last thing you want is for it to become worse (especially as you dont have insurance!)
My IDX was diagnosed in June with mild lami caused by EMS, his blood sugar was 20x the average for a horse. He was on metformin for 5 months whilst on box rest to kick start his metabolism again and help lower his blood sugar. But you shouldnt need to use the metformin when you can start exercise again. Have you had blood tests done at all? or xrays? It can take them a while to look 100% 'sound' again. My yard sounds alot like mine, the grass is so lush (ex dairy) and he just cant go out for long periods on it, its just too risky as hes a pig and stuffs himself!
Also worth looking at cinnamon powder (can buy cheap off ebay) as that helps with weight loss and laminitic horses. Definitly worth googling the info as i did find it useful and started my boy on it a few weeks ago. Hope this helps x
 
My mare had laminitis a couple of years ago and luckily(touch wood) I seem to have found the right management for her. I weigh and soak her hay for 12hours and she has 1scoop of Happy Hoof with magnesium. I give her a haynet ona morning whilst mucking out, she's then ridden then turned out muzzled for 5 hours before bringing her in for the night.
 
My EMS mare has large scoop cinnamon (Indonesian is recommended) small scoop each of Yea sac and Psyllium, 20mg biotin, 30mg 85% magnesium, can now have 6 hours muzzled grazing plus unmollassed sugar beet, bran & hay. I give her a week every 3 months without these supplements and her crest starts to come up again in this week and is slightly stiffer in front legs so have to take her off grass for these periods.
Cinnamon, yeasac & psyllium from Cotswold Herbs, magnesium, biotin, unmollassed sugar beet, bran from Charnwood Milling.
Do hope you find something to help, she is so young.
 
I give her a week every 3 months without these supplements and her crest starts to come up again in this week and is slightly stiffer in front l
Click to expand...

Re the crest...

Often giving Magnesium Oxide over several months can reduce the crest. We have 2 laminitics, one professional and one recreational as it were...helped both of them

Often adding Magnesium helps - it takes several weeks to take effect, but then the crest begins to reduce slowly. Often you see other changes as well - reduction in footiness and coat and mane changes.

It was very helpful for us, but if your grazing / forage is not short then you may not see a result

Get it from Pro-Earth - Mel and Ross, it should be about £12 a KG
 
i would stick to your farriar for advice and make sure he doesnt rasp the feet at all when trimming them as this weakens the hoof wall which holds onto the laminae! its all about management and it sounds like your on top of things! laminitis is a toxin aswell so naf d tox helps and laminaze and thye have good days and bad days i just used to let my pony rome around the yard and he did what he felt like doing some days he would march out of the stable and other days he would come out eventually and then put himself back to bed!!
 
I would always double check for EMS and Cushing's in recurrent or unresponsive laminitics. Ask your vet to take a blood for ACTH for the Cushing's (and if you go to www.talkaboutcushings.co.uk you can get £15 back on the blood test).

If they are both clear then would look at feed. Horses that are on permanent diets end up being marginal in several vitatmins, minerals and essential amino acids, if they are not on a feed balancer. (All the different manufacturers have their own but those that also produce a laminitic-friendly one this is the one you need (the others are conditioning feeds too so be careful). D&H only make one balancer and it is safe to give to laminitics.) If a horse doesn't have these vits/mins etc it will struggle to lose weight because it can't metabolise its' fat properly.

I really hope you manage to control the laminitis.
 
I agree with JBW about the blood tests, its the best way of knowing about an underlying cause and can hopefully help you out in the future..
 
I don't think I have anything to add to what others have already suggested. It sounds as though you are doing lots to try and help your pony, and I hope you find she makes progress soon.

I'd highly recommend a new book that I'm just wading through:

Care and Rehabilitation of the Equine Foot, by Pete Ramey
http://www.hoofrehab.com/Care_and_Rehabilitation_of_the_Equine_Foot.htm

It has some amazing stuff in there with contributions from quite a few vets, and covers the veterinary side and the general management side of things.

It IS technical and detailed, but don't be deterred by that or the price. You can dip in and out of whichever chapters seem most relevant at any one time, and the total cost is probably around what some folk pay for a couple of sets of shoes, or less than two vet callouts (that's my way of justifying things!).

Sarah
 
flintfootfilly said:
I don't think I have anything to add to what others have already suggested. It sounds as though you are doing lots to try and help your pony, and I hope you find she makes progress soon.

I'd highly recommend a new book that I'm just wading through:

Care and Rehabilitation of the Equine Foot, by Pete Ramey
http://www.hoofrehab.com/Care_and_Rehabilitation_of_the_Equine_Foot.htm

It has some amazing stuff in there with contributions from quite a few vets, and covers the veterinary side and the general management side of things.

It IS technical and detailed, but don't be deterred by that or the price. You can dip in and out of whichever chapters seem most relevant at any one time, and the total cost is probably around what some folk pay for a couple of sets of shoes, or less than two vet callouts (that's my way of justifying things!).

Sarah
Click to expand...

You DO remember you promised to get me this for Christmas, don't you.
yes.gif
 
I'd like to ask how people got their ponies to eat magnesium and cinnamon. I don't consider my pony to be particularly fussy, but he will not eat a feed if it contains even tiny amounts of these substances.
 
Oberon said:
You DO remember you promised to get me this for Christmas, don't you.
yes.gif
Click to expand...

...... Of COURSE I do, LOL!!! It was at exactly the same time that you promised to buy me the 10 disc DVD set plus a bottle of gin!

Or maybe not! ;)

Seriously though, I really SHOULD have the DVD's as well. Would it be too sad to watch them over Christmas?!

Sarah
 
Hello, here's my experience to add to your information.

We have a 12 hh pony who had a bout of lami early this spring for (to our knowledge) his first time ever. The field is ex-dairy pasture and there's nothing I can do about that. He was stabled in for 6 weeks ish when he came down with it, but has now been living out 24-7 for all summer and will continue to do so from now on.

He and his field mate have a small, over-grazed (this is what it looks like, but it patently isn't) patch of the field with a moveable electric fence across the bottom. Every day they get a tiny bit more field (and I do mean tiny - about 5 cm wide by 2 metres long) as the elec fence is gradually crept down the field. This way they get enough 'new stuff' to keep them occupied and stop them trashing the fence but not so much that it overloads them.

I feed him on nothing except this grazing and the Global Herbs Laminitis Prone supplement mixed with a tiny bit of Hi Fi Lite. Since we started hunting this Autumn I've moved from straight Hi Fi Lite to D&H Safe & Sound mix. About 2 small handfuls a day.

I can't rate highly enough the Global Herbs supplement. Hand on heart I can say that he has it every day since I started him on it after the bout of Lami in the spring, and the odd (very odd) days that he didn't have it I could feel warmth in his coronet band the next day.

He is shoed on all four feet as I do lead him out on a fair bit of roadwork (I ride and lead) to keep him fit for my son to hunt him. Touch wood cross fingers he is doing just fine now. :)
 
BigRed said:
I'd like to ask how people got their ponies to eat magnesium and cinnamon. I don't consider my pony to be particularly fussy, but he will not eat a feed if it contains even tiny amounts of these substances.
Click to expand...
I might not be much help as my lot all eat the pure and cal mag fine. Try brewers yeast (if they like that lol) and micronized linseed. I use speedibeet as a carrier and believe pure magnesium oxide is tasteless. I can't get it over here so switched to cal mag. You could try adding small amounts and gradually increasing or even try another brand/form? Add salt too if you don't, helps disguise taste as well.
 
BigRed said:
I'd like to ask how people got their ponies to eat magnesium and cinnamon. I don't consider my pony to be particularly fussy, but he will not eat a feed if it contains even tiny amounts of these substances.
Click to expand...

I use the more expensive magnesium as they won't eat the CalMag.

My Arab is happy to eat most things but The Tank won't eat any 'foreign muck'
yuck.gif

but I did notice he loved the VermX stuff when I used it. It has ceyenne pepper in it
shocked.gif


I add turmeric and fenugreek seeds as well as a mixture of herbs for their health (nettle, mint, clivers, hawthorn, dandelion etc) which tempts them both.

When I didn't have any turmeric or fenugreek in stock, I've used Tesco's curry powder and he loved that too!

The secret (I've found) is to add each thing slowly and gently - build up their tolerance.
 
wow! Loads of info to sift thro and am very grateful to all who posted their experience, it really helps to communicate and hear what is successful, as i too have trawled the internet and used all sorts of concoctions but you end up broke and unsure what is working or not. I am intrigued to hear that thunderbrook not good for laminitics/ems as this is their target group, but this is not the first time i have heard this - in Lu's case i dont think the feed is the problem but of course could be keeping her at tipping point. What's in it that is problematic? I was very enthusiastic after talking to the nutritionist as it made alot of sense to me and it does seem full of good well sourced nutrition. I have been dreaming of a small pill that antidotes grass and allows free grazing...

Bruce thanks will look at website tonight now i have computer back and after i do yet more fencing!!
 
Oberon said:
Some people get on well with Thunderbrook - but not often those with laminitic or EMS horses (even if your BF trimmer did recommend it, as so many do).

There is often good advice on this Yahoo group
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

and Metabolic horse
http://www.metabolichorse.co.uk/index.htm
Click to expand...
Hi thanks for your post, you are not the first person to say thunderbrook not good for lami/ems, do you know why? I was very happy with it as she gets so little nutrition i felt it covered her, but of course it could be keeping her close to tipping point. the nutritionist made alot of sense and the bag actually says for lami/ems/cushings, i would be really interested in your view, alex
 
BigRed said:
I'd like to ask how people got their ponies to eat magnesium and cinnamon. I don't consider my pony to be particularly fussy, but he will not eat a feed if it contains even tiny amounts of these substances.
Click to expand...

My pony will eat cinnamon if I wet his feed - he likes it really sloppy then he just slurps it all up. If I try to put anything in a dry feed he won't eat it and he is as far from fussy as you could get
 
brandybuck said:
Hi thanks for your post, you are not the first person to say thunderbrook not good for lami/ems, do you know why? I was very happy with it as she gets so little nutrition i felt it covered her, but of course it could be keeping her close to tipping point. the nutritionist made alot of sense and the bag actually says for lami/ems/cushings, i would be really interested in your view, alex
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I have no personal experience, but I have heard the same report from several people.

There is a thread about it here
http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/about2489.html&highlight=thunderbrook

Like you rightly say, with laminitis it is often not just one thing, but adding straws to the back that ends with problems.
Just easing the load a little can make all the difference.

A low sugar/starch alternative and a supplement high in minerals should fulfill her needs.
 
I've become convinced that any made up feeds are not the best first step for horses with laminitis. Low sugar forage (soaked or tested low sugar hay), salt, vitmin e, magnesium and minerals that the forage is short of is my idea of the safest approach these days. I think many recommended feeds for laminitis are not suitable for many horses so it''s just not worth the risk in an acute attack.
Try stuff when the horse is stable not when it's already severely compromised.
 
Amandap, I could not agree more.
Natural food for the equine is not an earner for any forage distributor thus they have to create food that has binders, sugar additives, unknown proteins, starches and CH just so the horse will love eating it.
Well take any kid to a street where the sweet shop is next door to the deli, give them a fiver and see what happens, for kid see horse.
It is not natural to eat natural food anymore due to the shortcut we and all domesticated animals can make to get the energy we no longer need but yearn for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top