Laminitis in natives

[WelshD]

I've just bought a welsh sec A yearling

I remember well laminitis attacks in my Dartmoor pony when I was a child but I only remember us managing the situation when the first signs appeared and I dont remember any of the others getting it even when they had 15 acres of grass

Owners of natives - do you assume that laminitis will happen at the start and so take steps to restict the grazing or do you see how they fare in a more 'normal' situation first then take steps if their weight creeps up?

I have the room to make a starvation paddock/strip/track, I could use a muzzle, I have stables so he can be bought in...so management is perfectly possible if neceesary

Currently he shares a half acre paddock with a dozen sheep and two goats, despite their best efforts the grass is fetlock deep and very green. (we have sourced him a companion before anyone comments!)

I guess I am asking- is laminitis inevitable or do most natives pass through life ok?

 

[LauraWheeler]

Both my boys are native's (Foresters)
Merryn had laminitis before I had him . Infact that is why I have him his owner gave him to me as I am expereanced in dealing with lami ponies So he is obviously trated acordingly.
Herbs has never had Laminitis and I have no intention of him getting it so I treat him with great care taking every step to ensure he doesn't get it.
He is on a high fibre diet and fairly poor grazing.
I'm not willing to take the risk just because he hasn't had it before. Merryn was 8 when he first got it and Lucy (My old pony) was in her teens when I nearly lost her to laminitis, She had rotation in all four feet. She had never had lami before and she wasn't even that fat at the time
So no I wouldn't take any risks.
I'm the queen of laminitis parainoyer

 

[KSR]

My vet says treat all horses as potential laminitics.. The grazing and the general culture offered these days often totally work against us.. Particularly old farming communities with cattle or old cattle quality grazing..

I'd like some rough Scottish grazing for my lot in an ideal world..

 

[FreddiesGal]

I have always gone by the saying "Prevention is better than cure."

 

[missfitz50]

Hi there, I have a 5 year old Welsh D who has a nasty habit of putting on weight. I moved her from one yard with scrubby grazing to a yard which is old dairy pasture and her first summer there her weight ballooned!

So this year I was more prepared and started as I mean to go on. She's never had laminitis (luckily!) but there have been 2 cases at the yard this year already so she goes out during the day with a muzzle on then she's in at night with soaked hay. I figure it's easier to keep the weight off now than try and get it off later!

Obviously, I know it would perhaps be better for her to go out at night but as she's still a baby I've kept her in the same routine so she knows where she is and, so far touch wood, her weight is looking good. I also weigh tape her at least once a week and write it on my calendar also saying whether it's a pre-turn out or post-turnout reading.

I guess it sounds pretty obsessive but the way I look at it that it's better to prevent than cure!

 

[WelshD]

Thank you all for your replies

I will section off the paddock a bit more and make the grazing area smaller. I could ask my husband to mow the existing grass down a bit too if that would be a good idea? (mower removes the cuttings)

 

[VioletStripe]

I have a 15.2hh Connemara who lives off forage, luckily has never had lami though. *frantically finds a piece of wood to touch, crosses fingers etc etc*

Prevention is better than cure, so have always given a low sugar, low starch, low calorie diet, and made sure he gets a decent amount of exercise. Would rather have them drop off a bit of weight and so need to have a diet increase, than to gain the weight and have to drop it off.

 

[LD&S]

Thank you all for your replies

I will section off the paddock a bit more and make the grazing area smaller. I could ask my husband to mow the existing grass down a bit too if that would be a good idea? (mower removes the cuttings)

If at all possible go for a track or a zig zag so that the grazing area though small is spread out.
With regard to cutting you will then have very sweet grass growing whereas the taller older grass tends to have less sugar though there's more actual grass so they can often eat more of the long stuff without there being a problem (if that makes sense).

 

[Suelin]

Can I just ask, do wild native ponies suffer with laminitis? Genuine question.

 

[Goldenstar]

What exercise are you planning for him ?
My Shetland was on lami watch all his life my Mum took him for walks with the dogs almost every day and of course I rode him .
He did get lami at ten when a 'kind ' villager gave him his grass clippings because his paddock looked bare ., my mum got the vet at once but he foundered two days later I remember it all it was awful made a big impression on me.

 

[Goldenstar]

Can I just ask, do wild native ponies suffer with laminitis? Genuine question.

If they got enclosed on rich grass yes of course but exercise they get and the amount they roam looking for forage will keep it at bay I don't think we have genuine wild ponies in the uk only feral ones.

 

[dafthoss]

I keep his weight at a suitable level and treat him like a normal horse. He goes out on long grass with a group of 5 but if he gets fat he will be muzzled and do extra fast work to get his weight back under control. Touch wood so far its a routine thats worked for us and leaves me with a happy horse.

 

[guesstimation]

Definitely better to manage as a potential laminitic, if they get laminitis they are then generally prone the rest of their lives so why risk it. I've also read it can be a build up over years so if not managed correctly and just left to it you might be fine for 5 years but eventually that build up will cause an attack.

My pony is a bit overweight and I have really fought to try to exercise him and muzzle him and restrict his feed to keep lammi at bay, so far so good. If the diet is restricted ensuring the right vitimins and minerals are in the diet plays a big part to keeping them healthy.

I rode a welsh pony as a kid and she'd get lami most years, when she got it she was stuck in a stable and restricted until it was gone it wasn't prevented, whether that was lack of knowledge back then or ignorance I don't know. Terrible really, she got so bad she was eventually strip grazed pretty much for the rest of her life.

I have heard of the odd Dartmoor appearing to have laminitis on the moors but don't know the outcome as to whether it was. They are always on the move and the grazing is normally poor (well not poor but certainly not rich long grass like some of ours get put on), it is also varied so they can eat a bit of this and that which our ponies don't get to do, and normally the mares will be in foal and feeding so using much of the nutrients and the others will be youngsters so growing.

 

[tallyho!]

Young horses can get lami too. M had his first attack at just 6 years old. After they do their fast growing at 2-3 then it's time to think about weight. There is evidence to suggest the more weight they have as babies, the more they will hold on to as adults. I used to do the crest test. If his crest was thick and hard, I knew he had to diet. Muzzle, or soaked hay, whichever. But exercise was the most important thing for us. Lots of exercise.

 

[mtj]

Can I just ask, do wild native ponies suffer with laminitis? Genuine question.

Sorry, I do not remember where I saw this, but research on New Forest ponies has shown early signs of laminitis amongst the feral ponies at peak times.

 

[Suelin]

Sorry, I do not remember where I saw this, but research on New Forest ponies has shown early signs of laminitis amongst the feral ponies at peak times.

Very interesting thankyou. Are these NF fed by owners during the winter do you know?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

My12hh Welsh A is a typical laminitis candidate , she gorges on grass and not ridden much. Right from the start I limit her grazing through the April - Sept months. She has a muzzle from these months - but since she takes it off on the nearest post i put a corral up within the filed so she cannot do this.


If anything she is underweight, prevention is better than cure. Its a dang shame I did not keep a closer eye on my 16 hh horse exercised 6 times a week, Who did get it

I would do a similar thing small grazing area and a muzzle. My pony is not and never will be on 24h grazing.

 

[HaffiesRock]

Natives pony are built to live on fresh air and work hard. We then put them in a lush field and work then a couple of hours a week. Prevention is better than cure. As long as they are getting all the vitamins and minerals they need they will be fine. My pony is in a paddock that is quite bare and she gets a scoop of fast fibre with naff multivitamin in. She is doing amazingly. She is a NF x Appy. x

 

[Montyforever]

My welsh sec a had already had a mild case when I took her on so obviously I was very careful. She was lunged, not allowed on rich grass or too much feed etc and that was fine until I got ill and couldn't look after her for over half a year. She wasnt exercised or fed carefully and she got fat a few weeks after I had started to be able to look after her again she was moved into a different field and she got acute laminitis
She made a very quick recovery with no rotations but she hasn't been able to handle much grass since .. At the most over the spring/summer/autumn she can go out for up to 4 hours and in winter slightly longer but any more than that and she's footy with pulses despite being slightly underweight
I know not all cases end up like this and some can go back to normal with muzzles etc and handle the grass better but please don't think it's going to happen and it's simple to treat because it isn't

 

[bex1984]

I would always assume any native is a laminitis risk - I have a fell x who has never shown any laminitis signs but came to me very overweight and has since always lived on restricted grazing as a precaution. He is out on loan at the mo and his loan contract states he must always have his grazing restricted (and he has been loaned to a riding school to make sure he is kept in work - I think regular work is essential in controlling weight/lami risk in natives).

 

[CBFan]

I always treat ANY equine as a potential laminitic... they are all prone just some are more sensitive than others..and I am very concious of them putting on weight and the state of their hooves. Natives / small ponies are more prone however my 17hh+ got very early signs this year just 36 hours after after a dramatic change in his grazing. I was only able to spot it so early as he is barefoot and I noticed him being 'footy' over stoney ground.

I can't understand people letting their horses get overweight - it is far easier to keep the weight off than it is to get it off once it's gone on... I realise that some are more difficult to keep slim than others - mine isn't exactly easy and has a pretty strict turnout regime accordingly.

It is also worth noting that they don't have to be overweight to get lami, it just makes them slightly more prone.

I would be worried about any horse being on a field of fetlock deep grass - horses are meant to work quite hard for their food - walking miles and miles inbetween grazing scrubby patches of grass and having to forrage for what they get.

So restricting his grass intake and or increasing his exercise is a must IMO.

 

[pottamus]

I would not want anyone to suffer the anguish that my horse and I went through when he got laminitis. Get your pony onto less grass and weigh tape and condition score weekly - keep an eye on things, keep them slim, well exercised and monitored - prevention is better than cure.
I personally feel it is no bad thing to keep them off the grass for a few hours each day or overnight etc. Gives them a chance to catch up and limit the amount of grass eaten. My Welsh D is in all year round at night to manage the situation and is on the same paddock area throughout spring, summer and autumn - so more nibble stuff than anything to 'eat'.

 

[Littlelegs]

Natives in particular have evolved to survive on low quality forage, roaming large areas to find it, gaining weight slowly over summer & losing it over winter. Hence if you can recreate that there isn't a high risk. If you deviate from that, there is. I am lucky in that our grazing is low quality & rough over a large area, & farmer does a late cut of hay that isn't rich. We also exercise a lot. So while mine put on weight over summer, prob close to 3.5 by autumn when grass quality reduces, they lose over winter & start spring at 2.5. These precautions mean I don't restrict forage, during Dec-march they are in at night with hay, but unless deep snow in the day they don't get any.

 

[Kaylum]

its not how long they graze its what they graze on. Whats in your paddock. Rye grass is bad for horses. If people put a little time and research into whats in their paddock their horses would suffer less. instead they seem to restrict the grazing, and then give them haylage and hard feed. The field is your best friend.

 

[guesstimation]

its not how long they graze its what they graze on. Whats in your paddock. Rye grass is bad for horses. If people put a little time and research into whats in their paddock their horses would suffer less. instead they seem to restrict the grazing, and then give them haylage and hard feed. The field is your best friend.

This is very true and I've looked in to different grass and herb mixes for horses etc and if I ever got my own land would strive to make it the right grazing, cow pasture isn't designed for horses. Unfortunately you don't have many options if it's not your land and if you're at a livery yard you just have to manage the best you can with what you've got.

 

[WelshD]

Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to reply

My husband has the job of sectioning off the paddock today (in this heat too!)

Kaylum thats a very interesting point about the grass thank you, I will look in to the grass types