Landing phase rider position examples please ?

[clinkerbuilt]

I've read with interest the discussions on here of stable leg position, horse biomechanics, jump position variations and philosophies. I'm currently retraining my adult body to jump sympathetically & fluidly. Having thought a lot about approaches, canter, preparation, hip position etc, I wanted to hear ideas more about the rider position in the landing phase (number 4, in the phase breakdown), and how that may vary according to jump height, horse's style and physique etc. I know saddle fit comes into play too, but I'm taking any horse and saddle (and instructor) that's handy ?

My query prompted in the end by finding this discussion, where I'm pondering the "good form" it presents. Interested in other examples.

https://www.horsejournals.com/ridin...umper/dynamics-equine-motion-sticking-landing

 

[clinkerbuilt]

Clearly this was a silly question - will keep watching competition rounds in slow motion in an attempt to mesmerise myself calibrate.
As you were!

 

[ycbm]

Sorry I didn't spot your thread. These are all me. Hunting is very different from jumping when you know the landing, so more defensive.

 

[ycbm]

My own view is that you need a bend in the knee to absorb the deceleration of contacting the floor, you need to be getting the upper body more upright so as not to catapult off the front if the horse pecks on landing, and you must be able to release the reins to allow the horse to use its head and neck as a fifth leg if necessary.
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[clinkerbuilt]

Thanks ycbm, these are great. I've been worrying about keeping/swinging my legs too far forward over a wider (arena) jump, but since I'm on a variety of heights of mount, I'm in constant adjustment mode.

 

[clinkerbuilt]

My own view is that you need a bend in the knee to absorb the deceleration of contacting the floor, you need to be getting the upper body more upright so as not to catapult off the front of the horse pecks on landing, and you must be able to release the reins to allow the horse to use its head and neck as a fifth leg if necessary.
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Nice summary thank you. I've got the last two down most of the time, the knee bend seems to be restricted/helped by how long (not how much) I fold, I think.

 

[clinkerbuilt]

shorter stirrups help, mind.

 

[ycbm]

That's a tough ask. I used to have to consciously reload my jumping software between two horses I rode at alternate competitions. I'm a fan of a forward foot position jumping, especially landing, because of the stability it gives you. I am also riding EIGHT holes higher in all those photos than my dressage length, again for the stability.

 

[stangs]

I've always thought that the right landing phase position is more felt that seen, that feeling of not touching the saddle until after the getaway stride. Surely legs far forward is going to mean you're off balance and so liable to crash down onto the cantle? I wonder whether, like the canter, pelvic mobility makes it easier to stop your legs going way forward.

On a separate note, when I was working on improving my position, I found watching professionals ride an absolute minefield: a) I'm not jumping the heights that they are so the requirements for position are different, b) there's a huge variety in their equitation, a lot of their positions just don't look nice for the horse at all.

 

[clinkerbuilt]

That's a tough ask. I used to have to consciously reload my jumping software between two horses I rode at alternate competitions. I'm a fan of a forward foot position jumping, especially landing, because of the stability it gives you. I am also riding EIGHT holes higher in all those photos than my dressage length, again for the stability.

EIGHT. This gives me motivation to adjust more!

 

[clinkerbuilt]

I've always thought that the right landing phase position is more felt that seen, that feeling of not touching the saddle until after the getaway stride. Surely legs far forward is going to mean you're off balance and so liable to crash down onto the cantle? I wonder whether, like the canter, pelvic mobility makes it easier to stop your legs going way forward.

On a separate note, when I was working on improving my position, I found watching professionals ride an absolute minefield: a) I'm not jumping the heights that they are, b) there's a huge variety in their positions, a lot just don't look nice for the horse at all.

Yeah, I have to say I'm watching a lot of random videos at lower/more amateur levels too. I've been coasting on what "feels right" from when I was a teenager, but recalibrating that to the adult body when you're riding different heights of horse is taking time, for me.

ETA I got briefly bopped on the bum by the cantle on a bigger horse than my usual lot the other week. That was a "fold longer on this chap!" moment.

 

[ycbm]

I've always thought that the right landing phase position is more felt that seen, that feeling of not touching the saddle until after the getaway stride. Surely legs far forward is going to mean you're off balance and so liable to crash down onto the cantle? I wonder whether, like the canter, pelvic mobility makes it easier to stop your legs going way forward.

On a separate note, when I was working on improving my position, I found watching professionals ride an absolute minefield: a) I'm not jumping the heights that they are so the requirements for position are different, b) there's a huge variety in their equitation, a lot of their positions just don't look nice for the horse at all.

My own feeling was that legs forward on landing made it a an automatic reflex to absorb the landing "thump" and ride away. But I do think that also depends on short stirrups which seem to be somewhat out of fashion.

I'm about to whack my stirrups up on the novice I'm teaching to jump because when he gets it wrong he's tipping me forward in a way that doesn't feel remotely safe.
.

 

[ycbm]

Surely legs far forward is going to mean you're off balance and so liable to crash down onto the cantle?

Depends on the height of the fence and steepness of the descent and muscle tone in the legs and core. I don't think I've ever crashed onto the cantle in my life, honest injun.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I'll just put this here.

Anneli Drummond Hay riding Merely a Monarch winning Badminton 1963 by 42 points.

 

[DonskiWA]

Ou

I'll just put this here.

Anneli Drummond Hay riding Merely a Monarch winning Badminton 1963 by 42 points.

View attachment 98503

Ouch, I think I’d be terribly afraid for the knee joint if anything were to reverberate back up

 

[Tiddlypom]

Ouch, I think I’d be terribly afraid for the knee joint if anything were to reverberate back up

I take your point, but Anneli was still competing at age 81, which is really not bad!

 

[ycbm]

Ou

Ouch, I think I’d be terribly afraid for the knee joint if anything were to reverberate back up

She won't stay out of the saddle like that though. As the horse lands her knee will bend more as she brings her lower leg back a bit and her bum comes back down towards the saddle. She is riding extremely short, her knee is almost at the pommel. It's a very safe xc seat if the horses loses balance at all, or puts in a dirty stop, a seat also favoured by Lucinda Green but now very out of fashion due to more technical tracks.
.

 

[Red-1]

I am more neutral in position.

 

[ycbm]

I am more neutral in position.

View attachment 98542

Snap! Same fence as my Avatar.

 

[Red-1]

Snap! Same fence as my Avatar.

Yes, Storeton was a fearsome Novice!

I think one of yours was Bradwall? I didn't get a photo either year I jumped that bridge. Devastated! Especially the first year, we flew it! Second year I was a bit close. Those were my dream days. Never again!

I believe the fabulous photographer was our very own @photo_jo

 

[ycbm]

Yes, Storeton was a fearsome Novice!

I think one of yours was Bradwall? I didn't get a photo either year I jumped that bridge. Devastated! Especially the first year, we flew it! Second year I was a bit close. Those were my dream days. Never again!

I believe the fabulous photographer was our very own @photo_jo

The bridge is Eland but I have one of Bradwall, not quite what I wanted to meet on his first Novice ?

I think most of my photos are Photo_jo's, she's a fab photographer and a very nice person too ?
.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

So from a much less accomplished rider, I don’t know, but I didn’t fall off in either of these ???‍



In seriousness a supportive saddle for the rider (very individual), short stirrups and a strong core and lower leg help. Normally when not being useless I try to keep the leg neutral, not forward or back, but keeping my shoulders in line with gravity.


Anything I need to be more defensive then absolutely feet forward, give the reins and shoulders back, please note I am very much an amateur!

 

[Cragrat]

The type of saddle can have a huge impact on your position and feeling of security too! It's the postion of the blocks, the forwardness of the flap to allow the stirrups to be UP , as YCBM says, and the shape of the seat - usually much flatter to avoid cantle-whack.

Obviuolsy harder if you are at a riding school, but if you get the chance to ride in a jump saddle, and it fits you as well as the horse, you may find a huge diffrence.

 

[ycbm]

The type of saddle can have a huge impact on your position and feeling of security too! It's the postion of the blocks, the forwardness of the flap to allow the stirrups to be UP , as YCBM says, and the shape of the seat - usually much flatter to avoid cantle-whack.

Obviuolsy harder if you are at a riding school, but if you get the chance to ride in a jump saddle, and it fits you as well as the horse, you may find a huge diffrence.

Absolutely. My hunting saddle had an almost flat seat, tiny cantle. And very forward cut flaps. This thread has reminded me that I need to move my stirrups forward to continue teaching Ludo to jump, and that will stop me perching forwards as he lands. I'd forgotten to do it. Luckily my saddles have two stirrup bars.
.

 

[Bernster]

Fabulous photos Red, and HP for different reasons ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

These are old ones of me at a RC clinic. I can see that my leathers are much too long for jumping - that was a GP saddle and they were probably as short as I could go in it. 5ft 10 ins rider on a 15.1hh horse.

I was never a serious jumper. if I'd wanted to go further/higher I'd have to adapt my style. I only jumped to keep the horse sweet - he was much keener on it than me .

 

[RachelFerd]

I find trying to upload photos to here nearly impossible - but for me there's a big difference between landing phase when showjumping and landing phase when going cross country.

SJ you want to remain soft and forwards to allow the horse freedom to get their HQs up in the air over the fence so they don't take a back rail out.

XC you want to be a little further back, softly in contact with the saddle so that you don't get thrown forward if anything unexpected happens. If you keep riding in this position over SJs it will cause horses to have fences down behind.

I am personally not keen on excessively defensive riding positions when they're not required.

I wouldn't know what on earth I'd need to do to stay on board over a 1m40/1m50 track though like Meredith is in the video still - so wouldn't judge off that!

 

[Red-1]

Fabulous photos Red, and HP for different reasons ?

Thank you. Those were when I was younger - I no longer aspire to jump big fences!

I think with a more neutral position, you can still allow freedom of the back. These 2 photos were 4 weeks ago, now I am older and creaky and on a baby horse. I do think you need an actual jump saddle and short stirrups to make it work though, as the short stirrups means you have a fair length of thigh in front of you and can keep your heels low so if you do have to do an emergency brace against the stirrup, you can! I like the saddle where it is your upper thigh that is supported on top, so you can close the thigh and are less likely to be pinged. Then you don't actually need the knee supported at all.

 

[sbloom]

The type of saddle can have a huge impact on your position and feeling of security too! It's the postion of the blocks, the forwardness of the flap to allow the stirrups to be UP , as YCBM says, and the shape of the seat - usually much flatter to avoid cantle-whack.

Obviuolsy harder if you are at a riding school, but if you get the chance to ride in a jump saddle, and it fits you as well as the horse, you may find a huge diffrence.

Except so many put riders massively into a chair seat, so they have to climb up over the pommel to be over them...stirrup bars really shouldn't be too far forwards but otherwise yes, flatter seat and decent forwards flap as appropriate. Every rider is different.

There's a previous discussion on jumping position where the "new" approach was hips forwards - to me that's simply to make up for the bars being too far forwards. If the bars put you more over your feet then you can fold and be in a much better position and more over the horse's moving COG.

 

[TheMule]

I like the philosophy of doing almost nothing over a fence- you come in in light seat, the horse takes off underneath you and you stay balanced over your feet throughout the whole jump without moving.
Of course, that’s easier said than done and I’m a serial shoulder slinger, but I will keep striving!

This balance the whole way through-


This was me on his mother 10 years previous!