Large horse needing more than 2 feeds a day. How do you manage?

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Sammy1983

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My boy is a 17.2 HW in medium work. He's starting to need extra feed daily to help maintain his weight.
He's supposed to have 5.25kgs of feed a day but obviously it's not recommended to feed more than 2kgs per meal. I can only feed/ get him fed twice a day, does anyone have any suggestions of a supplement I could use to increase his calorie intake with out the extra weight or a way of being able to feed him the required hard feed amount without physically being there. Oh and his feed is a soak feed so couldn't be put in a feed ball.
 
Charlie007 said:
It might be worth looking into micronised linseed.
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second this 100% - really good stuff for getting weight on, soaks into a nice mush and because it's not grain/cereals you don't have to worry so much about quantity. 1-2 mugs per day should be enough to maintain his weight.
 
Make sure hes on truly ad lib good quality forage, then look at something like linseed and/or copra. 5kgs of hard feed is a lot! I'm sure that volume could be reduced dramatically if you fed ad lib forage and high fat bucket feeds with a decent balancer :)
 
Hi guys. He is on ad lib haylage, it is first cut ryegrass haylage of a very good quality. He has more than he can eat every night and ears about a slice of a large haylage bale. He is also turned out during the day with access to haylage at that time also. I am with you that 5kgs seems a lot of hard feed but he currently gets 3 kgs and is only maintaining his weight not increasing as I would like. He was also very very poor when I got him and lacking in muscle mass so I'm also very keen to ensure he gets a correct diet to help the continuation of his muscle development. Also he has put the anchors on this currently by going lame yesterday 😫
 
Simple rules of animal husbandry which seems to be a dying art these days, sadly.

If an animal is poor, you don't work it at all until it has recovered sufficiently to have reserves so that when you do work it, it will be able to tighten up without going below the threshold. It can't work and try to keep weight on if it's not at a proper weight to start with and no amount of bulking up the feed will do that. A horse can only eat so much and a horse that has been poor will to some extent, have been used to going without so the stomach will need time to adapt to larger and more nutritious feed. I would suggest you turn him away on good forage until he gets those reserves in place before you even think about riding him let alone asking him to work, perhaps his lameness is a blessing in disguise for him.
 
He is currently fed Ready mash extra twice a day. Maesfen he was poor I have owned him 5-6 months now and yes I did give him a holiday and not ride him until he had put weight on. This is a photo of him when I got him
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This is a photo of him taken today
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So as you can see he has improved greatly, he is also a horse who doesn't do well turned away I tried that with adlib forage and two feeds and he stressed and walked the fence line so badly he actually lost weight. He was in a professional competition yard as a youngster and thrives on routine. Also I hate to see how being lame and in discomfort could ever be a blessing!
 
I would want to turn away with a pal.
Certainly still looks too poor to work, a bit of light hacking maybe but no serious schooling under saddle, I have never fed anything more than 2.5kgs per day [to a 15.3 hunter] and would not consider more than 3.5kgs if not in hard work.
I would calculate the weight, there are calculations using measurements. Weigh out his feed, he should be able to eat 2.5% of bodyweight.
Then use a weight tape every week: you should be aiming at 1kg increase per week, BUT you MUST make sure he is not losing weight.
The vet needs to check this horse. The teeth have to be done by a GOOD technician or senior vet The worm count done, ask Westgate labs for advice, you MUST be VERY careful if you don't know worm/management history. Tapeworm also comes to mind, there is a saliva test.
 
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You may have a mash as a main feed but there is no reason not to feed conditioning nuts which don't need soaking at another time. If he is stabled it is best to feed small feeds anyway, but best to try to give him a natural lifestyle.
 
Hi Bonkers he has been checked by vet when he arrived and also has been checked regularly. When he arrived he had full check plus teeth, bloods and vaccinations. He was anaemic with a severe worm burden, this was treated and he is now coming back with good worm counts.
The 5.25kg of concentrates is the results from the 2.5% body weight working on a 80% forage to 30% hard feed ratio. This was all calculated under the advice of vet and equine nutritionalist.
I started exercising on recommendation from my vet as he was getting very silly in himself due to the feed and no exercise. His weight is being monitored carefully and as I mentioned he has plateaued on the weight gain front. I would normally consult my vet but the vet dealing with him
Is currently on holiday so I thought I would ask if anyone has any helpful suggestions on increasing his calorie intake
 
Borodin I'll look into that one thanks I'm not worried about the cost just ensuring he is getting the best for him.
Also just saw your second post Bonkers, he gets turned out from 7am till 6pm with access to haylage and is stabled overnight.
 
I don't get the 80% 30% thing.
My biggest horse was 18.00 T.B, and a hatrack when he came [though in full racing work] he got fed a lot of racehorse haylage, and three feeds a day, but really, he did not get as much as 5.5kgs. I would be worried about laminitis, something stallions are prone to because they get such a lot of feed.
Be patient.
 
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I think a horse your size on slobbermash would need 4kg/day maximum so seem much better...
The people that import the feed are extremely helpful they are called h and f feeds based in Burnley Lancashire
John and Ruth are both lovely :)
 
Hi Bonkers he is a 17.2-17.3 Holstein x ID so will be a very chunky boy once at correct weight. The 80%-30% is you qork out how much total feed your horse is supposed to have Nd then depending on the amount of work they do. You split that amount in my case 80% forage and 30% concentrate.
Borodin do you have to order direct from them or would my feed store be able to order it in?
 
Sammy1983 said:
Hi Bonkers he is a 17.2-17.3 Holstein x ID so will be a very chunky boy once at correct weight. The 80%-30% is you qork out how much total feed your horse is supposed to have Nd then depending on the amount of work they do. You split that amount in my case 80% forage and 30% concentrate.
Borodin do you have to order direct from them or would my feed store be able to order it in?
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Yes 80%+30%=110%
 
I don't get the 2kg per feed thing either - unless he is a greedy feeder and sucks it up straight away. I have a poor doer (out in the field) who gets half a tubtrug full twice a day but although he will be getting at least 2 kg dry matter much of it is Equibeet so it is soaked and high volume. Which means he trickle feeds it - would that be an idea for yours? I mix flaked barley and grass nuts with it, as well as his linseed and supplements, and rice bran is really good (if a little expensive).
 
Lets work this out,
If your horse [very underweight as in pic 1] is 500kgs
2%=10kgs + 0.5%=0.25kg so total intake of DM would be 10.25kgs of DM
if your horse is 600gks [photo 2]
2%=12kgs,+ 0.5%=0.3kgs, total 12.3kgs DM

Once horse is 700kgs he goes on to maintenance
2%=14.0kgs and he might have extra for an hour's work per day, say 15kgs.


If the DM target for a 700kg horse on maintenance plus work is 15kg, and his feed is 15% water, therefore 85% dry matter, he needs his actual feed to be 14kgs plus 15% [not totally correct but near enough.


Now 80% of 15kgs [ie what DM he can eat] as forage which is about = 17kgs of haylage, but he is out at grass in the day so you could not expect him to eat as much as that anyway.
If a horse could eat eg 15kgs of haylage, and this is 4/5ths of his diet, I think he will only eat 1/5th as hard feed, eg 3kgs of oats for example [not suggesting you feed 3kgs of oats!]

To summarise, feed ad lib haylage, weigh it, and feed 3kgs dry matter short feed.

Any equine nutrionists out there?
 
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If he is stressy enough to pace the fence line I'd try an ulcer supplement and be feeding a balancer with probiotics to maximise gut health and utilisation of food.
good luck with him - you have made a big difference already. :)

edited to say - Have you tried a worm count as well? - Even if you have wormed properly a large burden can hang on in there.
 
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70% / 30 will increase short feed to 3.5kgs per day of hard feed, which is still a lot, a stallion covering six mares per day gets no more than 5kgs and the ration is strictly controlled.
Racehorses trained to gallop 3 miles over fences and getting three x eight furlongs at a good pace every day would not get that much. I just don't think they would eat it.
 
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Bonkers I completely agree with you he is currently getting 3kgs split into 2 feeds and hasn't increased weight for a few weeks now hence my feelings he needs a change in feed. I'm looking for either a feed that is more calorie dense or a supplement I can add to his feed to help increase the weight gaining potential without increasing the mass he has to eat
 
Sammy1983 said:
Bonkers I completely agree with you he is currently getting 3kgs split into 2 feeds and hasn't increased weight for a few weeks now hence my feelings he needs a change in feed. I'm looking for either a feed that is more calorie dense or a supplement I can add to his feed to help increase the weight gaining potential without increasing the mass he has to eat
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I would be inclined to try something like eqi jewel you don't have to feed loads for it to make a difference, I know of 4 horses that gained good weight in a month on this when nothing else worked, it's not cheap but once he is an ideal weight you may not need it.
 
There is nothing more calorie dense than oil, however oil is a processed product designed for human feed, use micronised linseed which has minimal processing, lots of B vitamins and omega.
A normal horse does well on 100gms per day, a 16hh horse 200gms , a large horse should take 300gms per day, introduce over 10 days, it is relatively cheap and is a slow release source of energy. A coffee cup is about 100gms.
Then you can use this with the fattening mash, but the trouble with these feeds is that they may be targetted at older horses, you want to build condition rather than increase fat in the horse, so I would start on non molassed sugar beet pulp, and over time, work towards a high fibre with oil diet rather than a cereal based diet. You may need to add minerals, something like Equimins original, and I would also add 25gms of salt, not all horses will take it as a lick.
 
Micronised linseed, and unmolassed beet is good too. Neither are high tech or have fancy packaging but they will put weight on.
I know it probably doesn't fit with your current plans, and you say he needs routine, but can you not turn him away properly for a few months on good grazing with company? As in, several acres not just standard livery paddocks. Turning away is not the same as turning out, and I doubt there's a horse in existence who wouldn't respond well.
 
Nudibranch said:
Micronised linseed, and unmolassed beet is good too. Neither are high tech or have fancy packaging but they will put weight on.
I know it probably doesn't fit with your current plans, and you say he needs routine, but can you not turn him away properly for a few months on good grazing with company? As in, several acres not just standard livery paddocks. Turning away is not the same as turning out, and I doubt there's a horse in existence who wouldn't respond well.
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My big rangy TB didn't gain much on 3 acres of very good hay aftermath last year, so it isn't always the answer. He came back from loan very ribby and has gained more on barley, unmollassed beet pulp, rice bran and a decent balancer - bloods revealed slightly raised liver enzymes and he has responded well to Global Herbs Restore. Turning away doesn't always suit. Plent.y of good quality feed fed in such a way that they don't bolt it is the answer for him
 
OP iirc you viewed the horse some months before he got really thin, what was he like topline wise then? I guess I am curious whether he has always been a poor doer or whether there is still something going on that means he isn't gaining the weight he perhaps might be, does he show any other signs of ulcers, they might well be something I would want to rule out at least.
 
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