Large Oedema on Chest

[Tia]

My little arab has somehow careered over a fence and landed on her chest. She has ripped all the flesh off and is sporting a huge oedema now and it is very painful for her.

Just waiting on vet getting back to me however I thought I would throw this one out to you; would you give her bute to ease the swelling and as a pain killer? My vet lives a long way away and it isn't likely that he will be here until this evening so what to do in the interim.

I've been lucky enough to never have to deal with an oedema of this size before so experiences would be helpful.

 

[AmyMay]

Yep, if she were that sore I'd be giving her some bute. Once she is pain free in a couple of days I'd be inclined to gently massage the oedema as well.

Poor little mare

 

[Tia]

It's just that I read something today which said that bute could be damaging to it??

She is a poor little mare. She's one of my nannies but because she is so small, the foals who are much bigger than her just bounce into her on occasions. I think she was flipped over the fence. She's the little mare who almost lost her leg, and her life, when she was bounced over a fence and subsequently became entangled in it.

 

[AmyMay]

Really - havent hear that.

Hopefully you'll get some more replies.

 

[Tia]

I'm hoping so - she is in a great amount of pain and I really would like to give her something but I don't want to do any further damage to her.

She can't really walk and it is just too painful to touch so I can't gently massage it. Poor wee soul.

 

[AmyMay]

But an Oedema is a fluid filled lump isn't it - so why do you think that Bute may do more harm than good?

 

[Tia]

I don't. It's just I read on a site that it can disperse the fluid? And then it waffled on about the closeness to the heart of an injury such as this and that it would be contra to give bute in this example.

So you see why I became a touch confused as I was about to go out there and give her some? Then after reading that I didn't know what to do.

 

[catembi]

I would take this seriously (as it sounds like you're doing) & try to get it fixed properly.

My old mare had a grapefruit sized one on her shoulder as she slipped over on the road. It was drained once or twice but kept filling up again & eventually it went away very slowly on its own.

This was over 10 years ago & she will still bare her teeth & put her ears back if you try to brush her there (which isn't like her cos she's normally a sweet little mare).

 

[Tia]

My little girls one is way bigger than a grapefruit

. It's huge! The front of her chest is sticking out like there is a cushion, it goes all the way across the front of her chest where she has taken all the skin off.

Did your vet give your horse bute? My vet only has an answering machine and a pager so I am at the whim of him being able to check his messages and I always have to wait for him to get back to me. Even then, if he is at home, he is an hour's drive away - if he is out on calls then I can wait for hours for him to arrive

. So, so different from the UK where my vet lived just round the corner from me.

 

[catembi]

Oh my, that DOES sound like a big one...

I'm fairly certain we were given bute for it cos Jenny won't eat anything odd in her food, so I seem to rem that it was a performance getting it into her.

But this was just above the top of her front leg, on the bony bit further forward towards her chest & was quite localised ie one clear distinct swelling like a grapefruit under the skin.

Presumably you're worried about the bute in case it thins the blood & makes the swelling worse? (Not sure if it does or not.) Don't suppose you could ring your UK vet? It's 3.15 pm over here, so they'd prob be about?

 

[Tierra]

Hmmmmmmmmm slightly different when mine had one but let me give you the scenario.

Last summer mine was out with a lightweight turnout rug on and *something* happened that caused him to come in with:-

1) A grass stain down his head including swelling to the forehead area
2) A wrecked lightweight rug

Now, he must have fallen at some stage and got his legs caught in the rug and he shredded it trying to untangle himself. The rug was pulled back to the point where it grazed him across his chest quite badly. It looked rather minor to begin with (as if a child had scuffed their knee) but soon started to swell and by the next day not only was it red raw and painful but also huge.

The oedema also moved over the following few days from the point of the original injury to (eventually) down between his front legs as gravity took effect.

We DID give him bute for at least 5 days. Not specifically for the oedema to be fair but because he quite clearly had a headache and had swelling on his forehead.

The oedema itself had cold water applied to it a couple of times a day by sponge with the graze then having a general purpose cream put on it.

My horse has suffered oedemas a few times and I've always been told to hot and cold compress them OR to work the horse if its in a none interfering place and THEN cold compress them.

Im not sure if it does actually speed up the rate at which they return to normal, but it is how ive treated all his.

Im 100% sure he had bute after his fall while the oedema was present on his chest. Im also 100% sure that the vet was fine with this because we did indeed have someone come out to check him over (slight concussion and at the time, I wanted to be absolutly sure that the chest oedema was related to the trauma and wasnt anything more sinister given the location).

 

[Tia]

The problem is that I was all set to give her some bute but then I ran a quick search on the Internet and found this vet site which said that bute could be detrimental in a case like this; because of the proximity to the heart. I have a good friend who is an equine vet a few hours away so I might give him a quick call if I can reach him.

I'm pretty worried about her and I would be aghast if I were to do something which did her any damage.

She's such a sweet little thing and never causes any bother.

Maybe I'll pop out and take a photo of it.

 

[Tia]

Oh thank you for that. Sounds very similar to what has happened to my little girl. I can't move her and she isn't happy to walk at all as it is obviously incredibly painful for her. She shrank back when I gently touched it.

 

[samp]

I am sory to hear this I definitely think you need a vet to come and examine the Oedema etc

 

[Tierra]

Yea, my boy felt his a lot too. I was using a sponge and cold water and almost wringing it to the point that it was dry and then applying it as gently as possible. He was certainly moving away until (i think) the cold started to numb it somewhat. The graze at the centre of his was basically, i imagine, like a severe rope burn would be for us as it was the heavy duty nylon trim around the rug that caused the damage.

His doesnt sound like it was quite as large as your mares (although when it eventually moved down to between his front legs it was a good 2-3 inches in depth hung clear away from his chest).

But I know he was definitily on bute for the trauma to his head and nothing was mentioned at all about any possible side effects on the oedema and my vets are usually cautious to an extreme.

Your poor little mare. I hope she starts to feel better soon Tia

Please keep us posted.

 

[AmyMay]

Where is Star when we need her????

 

[Tierra]

Probably being overworked somewhere

 

[ihatework]

If it were me I'd telephone either my vet or another one to check before administering, but you say you can't get hold of your vet? what happens in an emergency?

Next step given your situation is that I'd call the helpline of the manufacturers, they should have someone specially trained to offer you advice over the phone.

FYI I have linked the bute data sheet

http://www.usp.org/pdf/EN/veterinary/phenylbutazone.pdf

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
what happens in an emergency?

[/ QUOTE ]

Emergencies are dealt with within a day or two here where I live. If you can't deal with it yourself then your horse is doomed I'm afraid. This is not like England - here you have to keep stocks of bute, banamine, Penicillin, needles, syringes etc. I'm lucky that I only live a mile away from the suppliers so I don't tend to keep large stocks of stuff in the house....except for anti-B's and bute. I have bucket-loads of bute!

 

[Theresa_F]

Breeze had this on her stomach from where she had to stand in - she was on bute for the original injury and was given duratic injections and had to be gently exercised to help it go down.

I have heard that tea is good for oedemas - but more for the lack of circulation type than injury - Cairo was very pleased with this as he loves a cup of tea.

Do hope she is ok, poor little thing has been in the wars. If in doubt about bute I would not use it - better her to be painful than in serious health problems.

 

[henryhorn]

I wouldn't actually, but apply something cooling like alo vera gel instead.
He may decide to give her a different painkiller like finadyne? and won't be able to if she has had bute.
We have had massive haematomas (think that's the same as you describe) almost between their knees before now and they take up to three weeks to shrink. As you say, very painful and look awful..

 

[filly190]

Tia, my mare has more or less got exactly the same, done today. I brought her in and had a good feel, she has also got a hole the size of a 50 pence which I have treated, proud flesh is already appearing out of it, too late to stitch.

I have cleaned her up, accessed it and turned her back out again, she was not going to settle in the stable. I always have a supply of bute, but choose not to use it for this occasion as I want her to slow down and heal. She is lame, but not badly.

The fluid sack is hanging below the chest and is about three inches deep with fluid. From previous experience this drains on its own and takes much longer if they are stabled.

I think these injuries look much worse than what they really are as its a relatively unprotected area and will swell and bruise more than more fleshy parts.

I am not unduely worried, but am expecting a two week healing time maybe a little longer.

Good luck with your horse