Latest Defra information

[MotherOfChickens]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ai-prevention-zone-plans-28_february-2017.pdf

 

[Clodagh]

Yee hah! Mine can go out on the 28th. So exciting. I normally use electric fence, have never seen a gull or a duck here, no standing water, all looks good. Thank you MOC.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

no Scottish government update yet :/ hopefully will be the same. my waterfowl will be pleased although going to wing clip them as a precaution.

 

[Clodagh]

Having skim read it I wondered if having waterfowl made it more of a problem, am I right in thinking you just have to keep them away from your chooks?
A friend has shared on FB that a wetland place in NW England has now got it. It is beyond me how they have been allowed to stay open, I assume it is the RSPB pound giving them extra powers.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Having skim read it I wondered if having waterfowl made it more of a problem, am I right in thinking you just have to keep them away from your chooks?
A friend has shared on FB that a wetland place in NW England has now got it. It is beyond me how they have been allowed to stay open, I assume it is the RSPB pound giving them extra powers.

I read it as having to keep wild waterfowl away from my birds. I can manage the chickens being in a small area-the ducks (mucky blighters) not so much. I want to move them out to a larger netted area as soon as I'm allowed. They seem alright but aren't laying yet-they usually start in January.

There was an RSPB place with it down south I think, still open.

 

[JillA]

Hooray, mine will be so pleased, although I think they have got used to it now. We do have geese stopping off for a graze, not sure how I can keep them separate from where the geese land, although I daresay the geese don't some near the yard and the hens don't wander that far.

 

[popsdosh]

I read it as having to keep wild waterfowl away from my birds. I can manage the chickens being in a small area-the ducks (mucky blighters) not so much. I want to move them out to a larger netted area as soon as I'm allowed. They seem alright but aren't laying yet-they usually start in January.

There was an RSPB place with it down south I think, still open.

Yes slimbridge had dead wildfowl and they still did not close to the public! Thats wildfowl and Wetlands trust.

 

[popsdosh]

Hooray, mine will be so pleased, although I think they have got used to it now. We do have geese stopping off for a graze, not sure how I can keep them separate from where the geese land, although I daresay the geese don't some near the yard and the hens don't wander that far.

As I read the regs you will still need to enclose the hens within a fenced area they cannot go completely free range.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

As I read the regs you will still need to enclose the hens within a fenced area they cannot go completely free range.

agreed-if they are outside they should be in netted runs-use bird netting and/or rubble netting-both are quite cheap.

 

[Clodagh]

agreed-if they are outside they should be in netted runs-use bird netting and/or rubble netting-both are quite cheap.

Netted runs not necessary in low risk areas, but definitely no contact with wild waterfowl. It does say they need to be fenced in.

Sorry, by netted I assumed you meant roofed, but perhaps not.

 

[Alec Swan]

I read it as having to keep wild waterfowl away from my birds. …….. .

By 'away from' does that mean that you have to also stop waterfowl from flying overhead and crapping on your birds?

I often wonder if those who dream up these knee-jerk reactions actually think first! Do we remember the site in Lincolnshire where there was an outbreak? It was a Bernard Matthews turkey farm and those birds barely see the light of day, never mind having access to wild birds!

Alec.

 

[popsdosh]

By 'away from' does that mean that you have to also stop waterfowl from flying overhead and crapping on your birds?

I often wonder if those who dream up these knee-jerk reactions actually think first! Do we remember the site in Lincolnshire where there was an outbreak? It was a Bernard Matthews turkey farm and those birds barely see the light of day, never mind having access to wild birds!

Alec.

However most of the outbreaks have been in out door flocks so maybe not so knee jerk! The Lincs turkey farms are situated in an area that carries a high population of migrating wildfowl so because of that there is always a risk of it getting in from the environment by many routes. I personally think that the low incidence of the disease in housed flocks actually shows that the precautions have worked as they are the ones most vulnerable as they are pretty naive to infection of any sort. Talk to commercial poultry keepers and see if they agree with you about knee jerk the ones around here are like fortresses at the moment with no vehicles allowed on or any persons apart from the normal staff .Its in their own interest as there is no compensation if you lose a flock and the clean up cost are down to you as well.

 

[popsdosh]

This map will give you a more accurate indication of which zone your in, it is interactive.

http://www.gisdiseasemap.defra.gov.uk/intmaps/avian/map.jsp

 

[MotherOfChickens]

By 'away from' does that mean that you have to also stop waterfowl from flying overhead and crapping on your birds?


Alec.

risk management Alec. If I were near watercourses and numbers of wildfowl my birds would be staying in under cover. I am not though so will use netted pens. nothing is 100% effective as has been seen but doing nothing does lead to disease-as seen in the backyarders affected when letting their birds free range during lock down.

I agree with popsdosh, without lockdown this could have been far worse. I just hope non-commercial people are more prepared int he future when it happens again.

 

[Clodagh]

This map will give you a more accurate indication of which zone your in, it is interactive.

http://www.gisdiseasemap.defra.gov.uk/intmaps/avian/map.jsp

That is a better map. They had to allow controlled free ranging to prevent most Brisitsh poultry farmers going bust I should think. As the public think £1 for four pints of milk is a reasonable price to pay I cannot see anyone continuing to pay free range egg prices for non free range eggs, even for the greater long term good.

 

[LovesCobs]

I'm right on the other side of the Welsh boarder to a large proposed high risk area so I'm guessing when the Welsh update I will be continuing with housing through March.

 

[popsdosh]

Im guessing a few on here may be effected by the latest outbreak in 23k birds at Redgrave in suffolk.

 

[LovesCobs]

Just had info that wales is carrying on the lock down until end April

 

[Alec Swan]

Im guessing a few on here may be effected by the latest outbreak in 23k birds at Redgrave in suffolk.

Interesting that yet again, it's a housed flock, broiler birds to be precise and they will unlikely have seen the light of day, far less had the opportunity to become infected by the 'believed' air-borne route. Is there any thinking from DEFRA's experts as to just how it's the large indoor flocks which are being struck down rather than, as we'd imagine, those birds which live outside?

It's also curious, to me anyway, that within these housed flocks the number of birds which are succumbing to the disease which presumably will have alerted the staff to a problem. There will probably be a natural loss of 5-10% under normal circumstances, so we can only imagine that there have been a considerable number of deaths from the disease itself. The remainder of a flock will obviously be killed as a precautionary measure.

I remain of the opinion that DEFRA are just as much in the dark as is everyone else.

Alec.

 

[popsdosh]

Interesting that yet again, it's a housed flock, broiler birds to be precise and they will unlikely have seen the light of day, far less had the opportunity to become infected by the 'believed' air-borne route. Is there any thinking from DEFRA's experts as to just how it's the large indoor flocks which are being struck down rather than, as we'd imagine, those birds which live outside?

It's also curious, to me anyway, that within these housed flocks the number of birds which are succumbing to the disease which presumably will have alerted the staff to a problem. There will probably be a natural loss of 5-10% under normal circumstances, so we can only imagine that there have been a considerable number of deaths from the disease itself. The remainder of a flock will obviously be killed as a precautionary measure.

I remain of the opinion that DEFRA are just as much in the dark as is everyone else.

Alec.

Broiler loses would be at 3% or less per crop. Any manager with 5% would be packing their bags.
House birds are unfortunately more likely to suffer as they are inherently naive to disease . Housed in close proximity and indeed the ventilation air is possibly the weak point.
Not quite sure why you are being so dismissive of the efforts as we know wild birds have died in large numbers due to the infection however it would be impossible to find every one . I think that only the loss of 4 major housed flocks actually goes to show they have done a decent job. God knows what the situation would be without the controls. I suspect a cull of Red Kite and buzzards would help but not politically ever going to happen.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Interesting that yet again, it's a housed flock, broiler birds to be precise and they will unlikely have seen the light of day, far less had the opportunity to become infected by the 'believed' air-borne route. Is there any thinking from DEFRA's experts as to just how it's the large indoor flocks which are being struck down rather than, as we'd imagine, those birds which live outside?

It's also curious, to me anyway, that within these housed flocks the number of birds which are succumbing to the disease which presumably will have alerted the staff to a problem. There will probably be a natural loss of 5-10% under normal circumstances, so we can only imagine that there have been a considerable number of deaths from the disease itself. The remainder of a flock will obviously be killed as a precautionary measure.

I remain of the opinion that DEFRA are just as much in the dark as is everyone else.

Alec.

Alec, this is a strain of high pathogenicity avian flu-so yes, there will be a lot of birds fall ill and die in a short space of time in a susceptible population. And again, risk assessment as I've said quite a few times on this thread.

I am not sure what else you expect Defra to do or why you seem so opposed to what they have done.

 

[Alec Swan]

Alec, this is a strain of high pathogenicity avian flu-so yes, there will be a lot of birds fall ill and die in a short space of time in a susceptible population. …….. .

I'm well aware of the potency of the disease, but still I haven't yet heard anyone explain how 'contained' birds seem to be the most susceptible, excepting for posdosh's thoughts that being contained may lower their own immunity and in that he may be right. As these contained (housed) birds have no access to wild birds, the question remains, and perhaps when it's answered, a way forward will be found as to why the disease finds it's way indoors.

It would seem that your experience and that of popsdosh, considering DEFRA are different to mine. Previously, DEFRA are given to knee-jerk reactions which has most watching them run around, like the proverbial headless chickens.

If you have a greater, or a different understanding than I do, can you explain why the only reported cases of avian bird-flue come from housed and intensely kept flocks which have no access to the supposed carriers, rather than the rustic and open air system by which you and I keep poultry and which almost certainly will and which to date, seem to be free of infection?

Alec.

 

[popsdosh]

I'm well aware of the potency of the disease, but still I haven't yet heard anyone explain how 'contained' birds seem to be the most susceptible, excepting for posdosh's thoughts that being contained may lower their own immunity and in that he may be right. As these contained (housed) birds have no access to wild birds, the question remains, and perhaps when it's answered, a way forward will be found as to why the disease finds it's way indoors.

It would seem that your experience and that of popsdosh, considering DEFRA are different to mine. Previously, DEFRA are given to knee-jerk reactions which has most watching them run around, like the proverbial headless chickens.

If you have a greater, or a different understanding than I do, can you explain why the only reported cases of avian bird-flue come from housed and intensely kept flocks which have no access to the supposed carriers, rather than the rustic and open air system by which you and I keep poultry and which almost certainly will and which to date, seem to be free of infection?

Alec.

I think you have been missing something Alec there have been many cases in poultry that have been running around even though they were meant to be inside nearly all small backyard flocks ,two cases in pheasants, many in wild bird carcases that have been tested including those at slimbridge. You even commented about the pheasant cases.

 

[Indy]

Does anyone think that there is more bird flu about but it hasn't been reported. By this I mean people who have gone up to there allotment in the afternoon and found poorly birds and disposed of them not your big concerns.

 

[popsdosh]

Does anyone think that there is more bird flu about but it hasn't been reported. By this I mean people who have gone up to there allotment in the afternoon and found poorly birds and disposed of them not your big concerns.

I think it is likely especially where they may not have stuck to the rules.

 

[Indy]

Yes, I think it's likely too. I must admit I'm a little bit nervous about letting my birds out - I'm contemplating keeping them housed for a bit longer and seeing how everyone else gets on.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

If you have a greater, or a different understanding than I do, can you explain why the only reported cases of avian bird-flue come from housed and intensely kept flocks which have no access to the supposed carriers, rather than the rustic and open air system by which you and I keep poultry and which almost certainly will and which to date, seem to be free of infection?

Alec.

there have been cases of flu in backyard flocks where birds have not been housed.

Indoor flocks are indoor, not hermetically sealed-you're only ever as good as your biosecurity afterall.

 

[Clodagh]

I think you have been missing something Alec there have been many cases in poultry that have been running around even though they were meant to be inside nearly all small backyard flocks ,two cases in pheasants, many in wild bird carcases that have been tested including those at slimbridge. You even commented about the pheasant cases.

I think there has only been two cases of backyard breeders having it, and both kept chickens with ducks. I do see that people may not have reported it, but I think that is a bit unlikely.

 

[PorkChop]

I will be keeping mine in until the end of April, or when restrictions are lifted. The guidelines are really not that much different to those up until now.

 

[JillA]

I have Canada geese flying over now - if the strain is as virulent as reported, wouldn't they succumb to it if they have caught it? What about rooks and pigeons - are they carriers or can they die from it?