Latest info on lami in general...?

catembi

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Following on from the lami & frost post, I've been looking into it all, trying to concentrate on recently dated info, including a good trawl thru here, & OMG, so much conflicting info! Including lami trust, Liverpool vet website, letstalkaboutlami etc...

So far...

Keep stabled/partly stabled so off grass.
Leave out because they will gorge more if kept in some of the time, so in/in & out is more dangerous than out.

Old, tatty long grass is okay as it isn't sugary.
Old, tatty long grass is NOT okay as they can eat more of it.

Only horses with an EMS issue are susceptible. If they test -ve to EMS, you can probably relax a bit.
All horses are susceptible & should be treated as potential laminitics.

Frosty grass is v dangerous.
Frosty grass isn't dangerous unless horses have been kept in & are then turned straight out onto it.

Frosted grass is okay an hour after the frost has burned off.
Frosted grass isn't okay until six days after the last frost.

Horses should be kept in a restricted area to minimise grass.
Horses should be unrestricted to maximise exercise.

Exercised horses who aren't overweight are probably safe.
The above are NOT safe.

Gaaaaaaahhhh...!

At home I currently have a 7 yo ID mare, a 3 yo Shetland & a 3 yo New Forest. Shetland is rounded (I think - hard to be certain under the fluff); NF is thinnish. They are kept on tatty old, long grass that has recently been fenced. In addition, I have two bare paddocks so the ponies could be grass free and hayed, but then I would/would not (delete as appropriate...) have to soak their hay...

If I'd known it was going to be frosty this morning, I'd have left the littlies in a bare paddock overnight with hay, and got o/h to turn out an hour after the frost had gone, but the more I read, the more confused I'm getting.

I wish there was a definitive answer on what to do to keep them safe but not bored stupid. I am also doing a track system that isn't finished yet.
 

Leo Walker

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Mine was 6yrs old, in good condition and the fittest he had ever been. He was negative for EMS and cushings and he still died from lammi despite being managed as an EMS sufferer.

Sometimes there is a clear cause but sometimes its just luck of the draw
 

Tarragon

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I feel your pain as I think it is a minefield too!
I have two native ponies, one 20 years old with Cushings and one 13 years old and I manage them using the following principles...
1. Not stabled as I have enough grazing land available (ponies at livery) to not have to, the ponies are happier and it saves me time and money
2. Maximise grazing area to encourage activity and to not overgraze. This means in the summer use temporary electric fencing to keep them in an area where there is limited grass and as I graze it down keep on making the area bigger. In the winter have full access to 10 acres to reduce poaching.
3. Weight it kept down by exercising rather than limiting food intake so if they are putting weight on exercise more
So looking back at your original list it is sort of pick and mix of whatever suits me!
 

catembi

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Sorry to hear you lost one despite your best efforts, LW :-(

Thank you, Tarragon! Mine are currently out 24/7, as I *think* the scruffy old grass is safe (it is kind of dead, and stalky), and they also get exercise as the fields slope and the ID tends to herd them... It's so hard to know if I'm doing the right thing. Formal exercise is tricky for the littlies as they aren't backed, planning is currently going thru for the school so I have no school yet & I don't fancy long reining on the road in the dark! I have to rely on the ID to chase them about now and then.
 

Annagain

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Mine was 6yrs old, in good condition and the fittest he had ever been. He was negative for EMS and cushings and he still died from lammi despite being managed as an EMS sufferer.

Sometimes there is a clear cause but sometimes its just luck of the draw

So true. A friend had a prime candidate - an old retired, exceptionally overweight IDx with cushings and EMS. While he was working (novice eventing) he had to be kept exceptionally fit for his weight to be even close to normal and as soon as he was forced to reitre after a tendon injury he ballooned. She was determined to give him a happy retirement even if it was a shorter one so she opted not to restrict his grazing and let him be a horse with his friends. If that caused laminitis and impacted on his quality of life she was ready to call it a day. He lived like that for 5 years with no problems at all before he had to be PTS very unexpectedly earlier this year due to colic.
 

Follysmum

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So hard to judge. After keeping my ponies on a small bare paddock for many years with hay I decided to let them on a larger area that had longer died off grass, big mistake as 2 days later one of them was iffy, moved them back to their small bare paddock and not had a problem since .
 

holeymoley

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I read somewhere a long time ago- if the temperatures during the day are above 7/8c then the grass is still growing, if there's a frost at night then its effectively 'freezing' the sugars produced during the day hence why frozen grass is dangerous. It is really tricky, I've always made sure mine has a breakfast and some hay/haylage before going out so he has something in his belly and doesn't need to 'gorge'. He's never had any form of episode from the frost *touch wood* and he has EMS.
 

meleeka

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My cushings pony lives out so no chance of avoiding frosty grass even if I wanted to. Luckily for me the trigger for laminitis was cushings so now she’s medicated she hasn’t had any more bouts. I’m more worried about my cob who’s fat and lazy but touchwood has never had laminitis. I do check pulses for the first sign of trouble and bring him in if necessary.
 

Beausmate

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I found with my PPID horse (rubbish feet anyway!) that he was fine as long as the change wasn't sudden. So I could let him eat frosty stuff as long as he had gone out before it froze. Same with new grazing, I had to be really careful to introduce him slowly or he would go footy but once he was used to it, I had no further problems.

Turning him out onto frosty grass would have been exceptionally risky and I avoided doing it at all costs, but leaving him out continuously didn't cause any trouble. I think his system couldn't deal with the sudden increase, but needed time to adjust.
 
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