Lazy 5 year old

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harrietmina

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My 5 year old anglo arab is having a few problems in regards to laziness. He is usually fine hacking out with other horses (alone is the problem, extreme napping/spinning/mini rears) but sometimes he walks SO slowly and he does occasionally nap even in company. We went for a long hack yesterday- first half hour was slow but no napping, but then after that he really starts dragging his feet along and napping badly on a few occasions- spinning round and trying to evade all control. we get round it in the end but its a real pain. Once we start trotting he is better and then the last 45 minutes we were doing canters and gallops- suddenly he's got all the energy in the world.
I've had his saddle checked and its all fine. He is also better in the school (still a lazy toad but if we're doing something fun he does put more effort in). If he loses interest though he does run at the gate or one corner of the fence. Its impacting his schooling as I'm struggling to get him to work in an outline because he walks with zero impulsion and as soon as you ask for more he trots because its easier. I feed him alfa a oils unmollassed with 365 complete balancer.
Should I feed him something with more energy? or is there a way I can break his laziness and get him enjoying riding out? even riding out with horses well into their twenties he's getting left behind!
 
If he has enough energy to canter and gallop at the end of a ride and prefers to trot rather than walk out actively then I think feeding him more will have no effect at all, it sounds as if it is either a physical issue that means walking out is difficult but trotting or cantering is ok possibly because adrenaline overrides the discomfort or it is a schooling problem where you have asked him for too much in walk so he has learnt to shut down and shuffle rather than walk out actively.

Walking in an outline is far more difficult than trotting as they have less impulsion carrying them forward, I rarely ask for much in walk on a youngster until they have learnt to march on forward, they can often stay in a nice frame in trot and canter before I expect them to hold much in walk, as long as they yield when asked they hack on a long rein and learn to keep up with the others.

Most Anglo Arabs will be naturally forward thinking with active paces, yours being so backward would concern me that there is an underlying problem, possibly foot pain, that needs investigating before doing too much more with him, otherwise I would go right back to basics and start to try and get him enjoying life at slow paces with a good instructor involved to get you back on track.

It does not sound as if it is pure laziness that is causing his reluctance.
 
be positive said:
If he has enough energy to canter and gallop at the end of a ride and prefers to trot rather than walk out actively then I think feeding him more will have no effect at all, it sounds as if it is either a physical issue that means walking out is difficult but trotting or cantering is ok possibly because adrenaline overrides the discomfort or it is a schooling problem where you have asked him for too much in walk so he has learnt to shut down and shuffle rather than walk out actively.

Walking in an outline is far more difficult than trotting as they have less impulsion carrying them forward, I rarely ask for much in walk on a youngster until they have learnt to march on forward, they can often stay in a nice frame in trot and canter before I expect them to hold much in walk, as long as they yield when asked they hack on a long rein and learn to keep up with the others.

Most Anglo Arabs will be naturally forward thinking with active paces, yours being so backward would concern me that there is an underlying problem, possibly foot pain, that needs investigating before doing too much more with him, otherwise I would go right back to basics and start to try and get him enjoying life at slow paces with a good instructor involved to get you back on track.

It does not sound as if it is pure laziness that is causing his reluctance.
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Exactly, thats where I have my confusion. His breeding does not suggest lazy but he acts it when we hack out. I did consider a physical problem, maybe that explains why he is better in the school as the ground is better? I've only had him 6 months or so, and he came from a really shoddy dealer with pretty poor schooling. However we have only just started schooling and he is never asked for an outline when we are out hacking- just asked to keep up. So I don't feel like he is shutting down.
He has a lump at the base of his cannon which the vet has checked out and said isnt a problem and he has had it since he was a foal but maybe its worth further investigating that.
We have an instructor coming next week so hopefully they can help :)
 
My anglo arab has always been backwards thinking and nappy, in fact your post brings back a lot of memories from when I first had her.

The things that have helped make her more forwards thinking include getting a saddle that's wide enough. Two saddlers insisted that she was a MW due to the TB blood (sigh) but I persevered and found a third saddler that finally fitted her in something that was not only wide enough, but flat enough as she has a very arab shaped back (flat, wide, with not much wither). Taking her shoes off has also helped as she's much happier barefoot and still grows more horn than she wears down even with lots of roadwork. Then there was training. She needed to learn that forwards was the only option, so circular or lollipop shaped routes and I would dismount and lead past scary stuff if required, then remount - napping was nipped in the bud and not allowed. I also found things that she likes. For her it was jumping and hill work. As she got fitter, she definitely began to think forwards.
 
5 is still young, how much work does he do? the fitter you get him the more forward he should be, unless there is a physical problem......hopefully your instructor should be able to help, but it sounds like he is playing you up so maybe get a bit firmer and insist that he walks with more purpose from the beginning of the ride and don't allow him to dictate what pace he is going at....good luck...
 
Faracat said:
My anglo arab has always been backwards thinking and nappy, in fact your post brings back a lot of memories from when I first had her.

The things that have helped make her more forwards thinking include getting a saddle that's wide enough. Two saddlers insisted that she was a MW due to the TB blood (sigh) but I persevered and found a third saddler that finally fitted her in something that was not only wide enough, but flat enough as she has a very arab shaped back (flat, wide, with not much wither). Taking her shoes off has also helped as she's much happier barefoot and still grows more horn than she wears down even with lots of roadwork. Then there was training. She needed to learn that forwards was the only option, so circular or lollipop shaped routes and I would dismount and lead past scary stuff if required, then remount - napping was nipped in the bud and not allowed. I also found things that she likes. For her it was jumping and hill work. As she got fitter, she definitely began to think forwards.
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I had the saddle refitted a month or so ago and I always check the fit myself because I'm a complete worrier but there are no pressure points. Interesting story though so it might be worth me getting another saddler in for a second opinion. I'd be over the moon if that sorted it out! I would also love to go barefoot as we don't do a great deal of roadwork.

He does know that forwards is the only option because we have never EVER turned back after him playing up other than on one or two occasions where we have been out alone and I have had to make the decision to end the ride for both of our safety. Even then I've never gone straight back home without making him work, be it with or without me on him. If I absolutely cant ride him through it I will dismount and walk him on (although it feels like more like dragging) and get back on...he usually stops napping straight away until the next point at which he decides would be a good time for us to go home. in company the napping is much less though, just the pace being the issue.
 
splashgirl45 said:
5 is still young, how much work does he do? the fitter you get him the more forward he should be, unless there is a physical problem......hopefully your instructor should be able to help, but it sounds like he is playing you up so maybe get a bit firmer and insist that he walks with more purpose from the beginning of the ride and don't allow him to dictate what pace he is going at....good luck...
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I think I can pretty much rule out a physical problem...he has always been like this in the 6/7 months I've had him and the behaviour is not chronic- if it was physical I would expect his behaviour to get worse as the exercise increases. His fitness is improving and I'm hoping thats the root of the problem
 
Could you be inadvertently slowing him down with your seat? Young horses are very senstive to weight cues (either intentional or otherwise) as they have not learned yet to ignore them.

Have a try of this exercise - in walk feel the drop of the saddle as the horses real legs move and allow the hip to move with each step (think almost walking on the spot in the saddle). Maintain this for a few strides and then sit square in the saddle and don't move with him, holds for a few strides and then start moving with him again and he should stride out more (no leg needed). Once he is responding to this, take it further by squeezing your bum cheeks and thighs whilst gently squeezing your fingers and he should halt. Again move with him and give a little squeeze of the leg.

I find - lazy horses work better with less leg and whizzy horses respond better to more.

One thing to remember is that he is young - how he is moving is how he thinks you are wanting him to move. Until you educate him how you want him to move he will carry on being a lazy toad ;)
 
The horse isn't lazy though. The effort that he puts into the napping demonstrates that. He needs pain/discomfort ruling out and then ways to get him to think forwards need to be found. I agree that nagging with the leg is never helpful, but a horse such as this can only be helped once the human understands the root cause (whatever it is) and then uses that information wisely.

For example, with my mare she just had no interest in schooling and the whole time it just felt like she didn't want to be there, regardless of the exercises asked. Pop a small X pole in the school and she did want to be there. You didn't need to even jump it often, but it made a huge difference in her mental attitude. Eventually the school became a fun place for her and you didn't need the jump there all the time to switch her brain on.

With hacking she had her mental handbrake on all the time and was really wanting to turn around and go home, so she crawled along as slow as possible and any excuse (scary crisp packet) was utilised as an excuse for whipping round, napping, running backwards etc... As soon as I started to take her to do hill work in the woods, it really changed her attitude towards hacking. She wanted to go out and so combined with extra training to combat the napping and never doing back and forth, linear hacks her behaviour improved beyond recognition.

I believe that with a (pain free) backwards thinking horse, you really have to get them onside and wanting to work with you. RE the 'couple of whacks' comment, yes firm, but fair was required, but whacking (or even just very strong legs) during napping episodes just resulted in larger rears, so not helpful. Being unthinkingly draconian wasn't going to get her wanting to do as I asked.
 
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What is he like on the ground? My boy was lazy to lead and always dawdled behind me to and from the field. This drove my instructor mad and we have done a lot of groundwork to ensure that he leads properly and when I say go we go! I think that this has given me more confidence in my ridden work to get him more off the leg.
 
EQUIDAE said:
Could you be inadvertently slowing him down with your seat? Young horses are very senstive to weight cues (either intentional or otherwise) as they have not learned yet to ignore them.

Have a try of this exercise - in walk feel the drop of the saddle as the horses real legs move and allow the hip to move with each step (think almost walking on the spot in the saddle). Maintain this for a few strides and then sit square in the saddle and don't move with him, holds for a few strides and then start moving with him again and he should stride out more (no leg needed). Once he is responding to this, take it further by squeezing your bum cheeks and thighs whilst gently squeezing your fingers and he should halt. Again move with him and give a little squeeze of the leg.

I find - lazy horses work better with less leg and whizzy horses respond better to more.

One thing to remember is that he is young - how he is moving is how he thinks you are wanting him to move. Until you educate him how you want him to move he will carry on being a lazy toad ;)
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Quite possibly. I find he doesn't yet know HOW to respond to my seat, he was unsure of leg/seat aids for steering etc but he is improving with those quickly. He does drop out of canter in the school after a few seconds which could actually be due to my seat giving him mixed signals so I will definitely try that exercise. He does work much better with less leg....he gets a boot if he's really doing my nut in and not listening whatsoever but generally he responds better to my voice rather than being constantly kicked and squeezed.
 
Faracat said:
The horse isn't lazy though. The effort that he puts into the napping demonstrates that. He needs pain/discomfort ruling out and then ways to get him to think forwards need to be found. I agree that nagging with the leg is never helpful, but a horse such as this can only be helped once the human understands the root cause (whatever it is) and then uses that information wisely.

I believe that with a (pain free) backwards thinking horse, you really have to get them onside and wanting to work with you. RE the 'couple of whacks' comment, yes firm, but fair was required, but whacking (or even just very strong legs) during napping episodes just resulted in larger rears, so not helpful. Being unthinkingly draconian wasn't going to get her wanting to do as I asked.
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I have absolutely no idea what the pain could be though. His hooves are in good condition and he is regularly seen by a great farrier. He did used to refuse to have his feet picked up but now he's super at it and it doesnt bother him. He's not been lame in the time that I've had him, no swelling and no sensitivity to touch. I don't even know where to start looking because everything seems normal?

The spinning does get worse the more we argue and he just ends up in a bit of a state. The most effective way i've found, if i really cant push him through it, is to get off and walk him on a few meters. Then if he naps again later on in the ride, he usually gives up a lot quicker as he knows that only outcome will be me walking him on rather than me relenting and letting us go home.
 
Allsorts0413 said:
What is he like on the ground? My boy was lazy to lead and always dawdled behind me to and from the field. This drove my instructor mad and we have done a lot of groundwork to ensure that he leads properly and when I say go we go! I think that this has given me more confidence in my ridden work to get him more off the leg.
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yes hes a ground dawdler too!! even going to his field/coming in for dinner he'll be lagging behind. I'm constantly clucking him forwards which sometimes works but then he'll start dawdling again, I've tried a few correction techniques but nothing has worked very effectively. The only time he gets a wiggle on is on the way home from a hack (but not when we are coming out of the school)
 
I had a lazy 5 yo, and I now have a lazy 16yo! He gets excited about jumping, xc but otherwise he's not bothered. I'm doing in hand walking at the moment, and I'm practically dragging him out. Until something spooks him, then he's all giddy of course.
 
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