Lazy pony… I’m out of ideas!

[lucy_108]

I have a 5yo Welsh X gelding who I backed myself and have had since a yearling. He is a cheeky, sassy little dude but in his ridden work he is bone idle. He is slightly more forward on a hack, but across the board he is just lazy.

He has a part loaner who is a wee girl and a cracking rider but her legs are half the length of mine and she has to really work to get him to go.

To add complication, he gets fat on fresh air so has to be muzzled, stabled in the day and given soaked hay so upping the feed isn’t really an option.

It’s making for some quite miserable riding as it feels like a cardio work out just to go for a trot.

He lives a very varied life: 3-4 rides a week, in the school once max. He does lots of hacking, a wee bit of jumping, but he doesn’t really get any more excited for that either.

Saddle checked, lameness work up done, scoped, physio every 6 weeks, beautiful feet no concerns from farrier, teeth done every six months no concerns. On the outside - a very healthy pony.

Is this just him? It’s a shame as when he goes, he is really quite something!

 

[Amymay Again]

He's 5, so young.

But if you're sure there's nothing physically wrong with him, take him on some fun rides. Exciting stuff.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

Is he actually overweight at the moment? If he is then getting him to lose will help, a slim, fit pony is always going to have more oomph than a fat one because it's carrying less and more comfortable for them. If he's on quite limited rations it's worth at least giving a balancer, and if you can afford it testing your forage and supplementing anything lacking as well because being deficient in any vitamins can contribute to a lack of energy too.

 

[marmalade76]

It's been warm, they're usually quieter when it's warm. Agree with Amymay, would add hound exercise.

 

[AdorableAlice]

If he has a bit of coat on him a clip would make work a bit easier for him. Get him as slim as you can and when the season starts get him out hunting or with the blood hounds.

If he is dead to the leg any the rider has an independent seat/hands you could use a sharp spur for a period of time, but you must allow him forward freely when you reprimand with the spur and you must not nag with spurs. He sounds like he is taking the P out of you.

 

[Breather]

Is he just as sluggish without a rider on board?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would either test for PSSM, or treat him as if he has it. Or ask the vet to test for EMS.

 

[LEC]

lots of things you can do:

More canter work in general fitness. I would look at interval work and hillwork.
Two schooling whips. Ask nicely with legs and if ignored flick with both schooling whiles - rinse and repeat do sharper off the leg.
Look to increase protein levels. I would do it through a high quality cube.
Check vits/mins/salt fed at right levels.
Ask for higher quality work schooling for less time and be really strict.

 

[meandmyself]

What's he actually being fed? Limited grazing, soaked hay... I'm just wondering if he's actually getting enough calories and nutrition to have energy? As long as he's in work he'll use up the calories.

 

[sarcasm_queen]

Maybe he’s just a slow and steady boy. Nothing wrong with that, just might not be what you want from a horse (nothing wrong with that either).

 

[ycbm]

He is a cheeky, sassy little dude but in his ridden work he is bone idle.

For me that would certainly suggest a hair test for PSSM1 and if that is negative a regime for PSSM2 to see if it makes any difference.

The combination of sparky on the ground and lazy in work is, ime, often one found in PSSM horses.

All the other suggestions are good too.
.

 

[Skib]

I cant comment on the health and fitness side but as an older beginner rider I became very used to riding the oldest and / or slowest horse in the RS. RS clients dont get the chance to do ground work, but I am a great believer in ground work and if your horse is cheeky and sassy on the ground, in your place my first task would be to deal with the ground behaviour - Leading, backing up, navigating poles and walking small circles in the arena.

Once mounted, there are various strategies for speeding up a slow horse. But it is well to remember that a slow horse is not being naughty. Horses are genetically programmed to maximise food intake and minimise energy output. Humans overcome this by imposing a work ethic. A horse must earn its keep.

One problem in the school is that it can easilly become a treadmill with neither RS horse nor rider knowing how far the RI will require them to trot. Mark Rashid taught me that the horse must know speed, direction and destination - usually applied out hacking but useful in the school as well. Know before you start trotting or cantering exactly where you are going to transition down.

The best way to speed up a horse is to have its attention. So riding transitions - 5 steps walk, 5 steps trot - going large will usually work wonders for a slow RS horse.

If one has the arena to oneself, there is the letter to letter crossing the school exercise. Point the head of your horse towards any letter on the other side of the school and head towards it at a brisk trot or even canter - halting facing the letter, Turn the horse, and repeat, heading across the school to another letter of your choice, again at speed.

 

[I'm Dun]

For me that would certainly suggest a hair test for PSSM1 and if that is negative a regime for PSSM2 to see if it makes any difference.

The combination of sparky on the ground and lazy in work is, ime, often one found in PSSM horses.

All the other suggestions are good too.
.

This. What you describe isnt normal behaviour so its just a case of finding the issue and PSSM would be my first port of call.

 

[scats]

It’s also worth noting that some riders make horses lazier because they over use their legs. The horse then becomes dulled to this and the rider has to be work harder. Remember that a hot horse you need legs on and a lazier horse you need legs off.

One of my mares was a perfect example when I got her. She was used to being kicked along every stride and she’d just completely switched off. I had to be disciplined to make sure that I kept my legs off. I asked for trot (or walk or canter) and she had to give it me. I then took my leg off once I got what I wanted. If she dropped back, she got a swift reminder and then once she reacted, I took my leg off again. She started to realise that she had to stay in whatever pace she was told to until I told her otherwise. If I put her into walk, trot or canter now, I can just sit there and she stays in it. It makes life a lot easier for me and far nicer for her.

I see far too many people who use their legs every stride to nudge horses to keep going.

 

[KEK]

It’s also worth noting that some riders make horses lazier because they over use their legs. The horse then becomes dulled to this and the rider has to be work harder. Remember that a hot horse you need legs on and a lazier horse you need legs off.

One of my mares was a perfect example when I got her. She was used to being kicked along every stride and she’d just completely switched off. I had to be disciplined to make sure that I kept my legs off. I asked for trot (or walk or canter) and she had to give it me. I then took my leg off once I got what I wanted. If she dropped back, she got a swift reminder and then once she reacted, I took my leg off again. She started to realise that she had to stay in whatever pace she was told to until I told her otherwise. If I put her into walk, trot or canter now, I can just sit there and she stays in it. It makes life a lot easier for me and far nicer for her.

I see far too many people who use their legs every stride to nudge horses to keep going.

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

 

[ycbm]

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

Why would you waste your energy telling the horse to take every step when it's so easy to teach them to take a pace and stay in it until you tell them to go faster or slower?

There's no better way to deaden a horse to the leg than to ask for each step.
.

 

[Sandstone1]

Is he having a supplement of any kind. If hes on a strict diet he may be missing something. He is only young. Has he been in work constantly since being started? At 5 he is only a baby really and may just need more time.

 

[scats]

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

What a way to deaden a horse to the leg. Plus, if you ride every stride, how are you then able to put your leg on for things like lateral work? You’d just become ‘leg noise’.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

It’s also worth noting that some riders make horses lazier because they over use their legs. The horse then becomes dulled to this and the rider has to be work harder. Remember that a hot horse you need legs on and a lazier horse you need legs off.

One of my mares was a perfect example when I got her. She was used to being kicked along every stride and she’d just completely switched off. I had to be disciplined to make sure that I kept my legs off. I asked for trot (or walk or canter) and she had to give it me. I then took my leg off once I got what I wanted. If she dropped back, she got a swift reminder and then once she reacted, I took my leg off again. She started to realise that she had to stay in whatever pace she was told to until I told her otherwise. If I put her into walk, trot or canter now, I can just sit there and she stays in it. It makes life a lot easier for me and far nicer for her.

I see far too many people who use their legs every stride to nudge horses to keep going.

I had one like this, previous owner told me I’d need a schooling whip and spurs to get him into canter. He was also big, young, overweight and weak. A few sessions riding him as you describe (and letting him go however forward he wanted off the reminders, even if it was shooting off in canter) combined with strengthening and a season hunting, completely different horse.

He was always a minimal effort sort of chap in everything he did, you’d never describe him as sharp of the leg, but turned into a lovely ride on the flat (didn’t ever really take to jumping other than out hunting but that’s by the by)

 

[AdorableAlice]

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

Time to change your instructor. Your lower leg stays quiet until you ask for a change of pace or a change within pace.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

If you're going to nag with the leg every step no reason the horse shouldn't just stop
Then it will learn you'll still nag with the leg but it has to do less work.

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

 

[Amymay Again]

This. What you describe isnt normal behaviour so its just a case of finding the issue and PSSM would be my first port of call.

It can be very, very normal behaviour. Especially for a horse that hasn't had a great education (apols op) and struggles with weight (so is constantly on a diet) ergo little energy.

I had one exactly like it - purchased as a five year old from a riding school. She was sound and healthy and as lazy as hell.

Hunting, fun rides, group fast work made her in to a cracking little horse. 'School work' in her case was kept to absolute minimum.

 

[Amymay Again]

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

I remember going to a Tim Stockdale clinic many years ago. He said exactly as you. Ask for the gait once. And the horse should remain in that gait until you direct a change.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I remember going to a Tim Stockdale clinic many years ago. He said exactly as you. As for the gait once. And the horse should remain in that gait until you direct a change.

It is called manners isn't it ?

 

[Amymay Again]

It is called manners isn't it ?

Yup

 

[Cloball]

I did ride a horse once for a lady that was the most idle thing I have ever sat on and sooo heavy in the hand. Owner advised me to use two schooling whips every stride whilst holding him in front. He was never going to light the world on fire but he'd never learned to actually go forward off the leg. I did actually switch to very blunt spurs, not saying this was the right thing as I didn't know as much about nutrition and physical issues then, just because he has learned to tune everything else out. Leg... No response... Touch with spur... Response... Left him alone... Until you get a response from just the leg. Also I left the front end alone so he could actually go forward and learn to balance himself and not lean. It didn't look pretty but it was effective and I felt like I hadn't done all the work for him. Gosh he was hard work.

Current pony also didn't understand leg aids but had the opposite issue and just went faster and faster until her legs were a blur any time you touch her.

 

[Goldie's mum]

I find this really interesting, as my pony is the same (in the school, OK out hacking). Legs on for every stride to stay in the gait. Exhausting. I asked my RI who schooled him from a 3yo for me, said surely once he is put in a gait he should stay in it until told otherwise? She said no, you are supposed to ride every stride (she also said he is lazy/less motivated).

That's the key- he's been taught that's how you do it!

 

[KEK]

Yes, we have stopped going to her this year. He goes nicely for her, does all the things. Not so much for me. We both got bored of trotting in circles. Hacking for now until I decide what to do..

 

[Boulty]

I’d second testing for PSSM as it is known in the breed and EMS as if positive then drugs to assist with weight loss may be an option.

I’d also second putting on a good quality balancer eg progressive earth, forage plus as if on a restricted diet is likely to be deficient in some nutrients. This can be mixed into a tiny token feed so shouldn’t adversely affect weight control. Would go for a version that contains vitamin E if fresh grass intake is restricted.

Doing these things helps “stack the deck” in your favour.

Once those things have been addressed then begins the process of teaching the horse that one light squeeze of the leg means go forwards & that the pace asked for must be maintained until you ask for something to change.

Ideally ensure you can get changes of pace on the ground from a light ask and pace is maintained without nagging first.

Don’t ask for too much too soon. If horse is overweight & unfit then asking them to maintain trot or canter for an entire circuit of the arena in one go is likely to be too much to begin with. Start small (which may literally be the short side of the arena to start with) & go from there.

Definitely try to get out hacking with others for some extra motivation following friends & once fit enough things like fun rides, hound exercise & hunting may help you discover some extra gears & forwardness if the horse enjoys it.

If you do end up having to use something like spurs or a schooling whip initially if currently numb to the leg then the aim should be not to rely on that but to be able to fade it out over time because the horse will go off a light leg aid.

 

[meandmyself]

I'd also see if you can hack with a more buzzy horse and see if that perks him up a bit.