rara007
Well-Known Member
Is he sound? And if so is he the pony for the job…?
Lazy pony… I’m out of ideas!
- Thread starter lucy_108
- Start date
Landcruiser
Well-Known Member
I remember saying to my vet "There's SOMETHING. She's just not as active as I'd expect a young horse to be. She's just not happy in herself." This was my young mare, who some might have thought was cheeky and sassy on the ground, and lazy, but I interpreted an unhappy and cross. She wasn't backed at that point, but was sluggish and unwilling either led or doing groundwork.
We blood tested, she came back with high CK, which is an inflammation marker. Further blood tests revealed Selenium deficiency (negative for PSSM). Once Selenium levels were restored she was a different horse, happier in herself, more active.
This is a massive simplification of her medical history (which can be found on another thread) but I wonder if it might be your issue OP. My other two horses on the same management and balancer were fine. Her needs were clearly different as a youngster, and I had failed to spot the low level of Selenium in the balancer, not that I would have known at that point. It was quite the learning curve, also not spotted by my vets. If your horse is on limited keep I would definitely run bloods and especially Selenium and Vitamin E.
My mare has since been diagnosed as having EMS, but at just 6 she's in full work, a good weight, happily trots and canters with the lightest aids, and is a joy to be around. For anyone interested, she is currently on a grass free diet on a track, ad lib hay, and is on Equimins Advance with extra Vit E, and Finer Forage base feed (she wouldn't eat Progressive Earth or Forage Plus).
We blood tested, she came back with high CK, which is an inflammation marker. Further blood tests revealed Selenium deficiency (negative for PSSM). Once Selenium levels were restored she was a different horse, happier in herself, more active.
This is a massive simplification of her medical history (which can be found on another thread) but I wonder if it might be your issue OP. My other two horses on the same management and balancer were fine. Her needs were clearly different as a youngster, and I had failed to spot the low level of Selenium in the balancer, not that I would have known at that point. It was quite the learning curve, also not spotted by my vets. If your horse is on limited keep I would definitely run bloods and especially Selenium and Vitamin E.
My mare has since been diagnosed as having EMS, but at just 6 she's in full work, a good weight, happily trots and canters with the lightest aids, and is a joy to be around. For anyone interested, she is currently on a grass free diet on a track, ad lib hay, and is on Equimins Advance with extra Vit E, and Finer Forage base feed (she wouldn't eat Progressive Earth or Forage Plus).
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Yep, I had one on loan that had been through a riding school and rejected by the RDA. He had few tricks up his sleeves too but decided that hunting, group rides and fun rides were his thing. He didn't mind groundwork and he was really good to lunge but schooling - not for him at all and god help you if you ever used a stick on him! He made it clear what he didn't enjoy doing and I accepted and respected that which I think he appreciated because apparently I'm the only person he's not been naughty to catch for! I actually bitterly regret returning him
I will have him back if I get the chance.lucy_108
Well-Known Member
Tested for PSSM and EMS. Both negative
lucy_108
Well-Known Member
Really interesting response as I put all of my horses on Selenavite E (a selenium and vit E rich supplement from Equine Products) as standard, but for no apparent reason, stopped doing it a few years ago. I may trial him on this and see if there is a difference.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I've got one that seems to need quite high protein to stop feeling bleugh.
I wouldn't be getting after a 5yo with whips tbh. I had an instructor who was one of those "give him a smack" types and I stopped after 1 lesson because chasing a sluggish 5yo felt a bit ick
I pretty much did the opposite and set up various exercises in the school which formed a pattern. Lots of moving quarters (riding squares, turning around cones) and repeating the pattern on each rein without asking for forward. After a couple of repetitive sessions I would then as for trot as part of the pattern - but without chasing. If we got horrible jog then so be it.
Probably just a couple of weeks mixed up with hacking before the trot started to open up within the pattern. I think as a 5yo he'd got a bit disengaged from his body and chasing him on wasn't helping.
PurBee
Well-Known Member
Magnesium is worth a try. Start with a heaped teaspoon mag oxide. Soaked hay, minimal fresh long green grass intake due to muzzling suggests a nutritional shortfall possible, for a young growing horse.
A youngster even at 5 is growing bone mass, density and weight and will gobble magnesium to have a nutritionally balanced skeletal structure.
The ‘energy molecule’ in mammals is called ATP. That can only be formed if magnesium is available. This is biochemical science - ATP helps us bat our eyelids aswell as haul 20kg feed bags on our backs.
The other system that can evoke ‘energy’ but is far more unhealthy is the adrenalin system of fight/flight - so hence why there’s suggestions of doing high energy group work to ‘get him going’ - but using adrenalin/glycogen system to force energy from a mammal isn’t the ideal route health-wise.
Horses are usually too easily adrenalised, and I wouldn’t want to teach a horse to be in that mode, as you come out the other side trying to calm a fizzy spunky horse who seems wound-up constantly when ridden.
(Ironically, in those cases magnesium is also used often to try to get the horse to convert to mag/ATP energy, rather than continue using the ‘cheat route’ of adrenalin energy)
Magnesium is a quick trial, cheap and certainly deficient is most over-grazed fields, barely added to most bag feeds…so where horses can get it from is from the bones, and could end up with arthritis before age 10.
He probably has just enough energy daily to carry himself, but with a rider on board the energy required for weight-carrying and movement could be too much of an ask nutritionally using the ATP system. It’s quite amazing he hasn’t employed the adrenalin system, and likely due to you not being a forceful rider using common fear/pain methods.
Fear and pain will engage the fight/flight adrenalin system. That energy system is for use for emergencies only, life-threatening - not daily energy use. We ideally don’t want to teach that.
Ideally we want a horse that has natural willingness to work with us, most horses likely do have that willingness, but we can easily miss a major nutritionally energy need like basic minerals/vits on a restricted diet, that bio-chemically does affect their energy levels.
I’d aim to get those nutritional shortfalls filled-in and go from there, before employing ‘yeeha’ high adrenalin environments, or fear/pain tools.
A youngster even at 5 is growing bone mass, density and weight and will gobble magnesium to have a nutritionally balanced skeletal structure.
The ‘energy molecule’ in mammals is called ATP. That can only be formed if magnesium is available. This is biochemical science - ATP helps us bat our eyelids aswell as haul 20kg feed bags on our backs.
The other system that can evoke ‘energy’ but is far more unhealthy is the adrenalin system of fight/flight - so hence why there’s suggestions of doing high energy group work to ‘get him going’ - but using adrenalin/glycogen system to force energy from a mammal isn’t the ideal route health-wise.
Horses are usually too easily adrenalised, and I wouldn’t want to teach a horse to be in that mode, as you come out the other side trying to calm a fizzy spunky horse who seems wound-up constantly when ridden.
(Ironically, in those cases magnesium is also used often to try to get the horse to convert to mag/ATP energy, rather than continue using the ‘cheat route’ of adrenalin energy)
Magnesium is a quick trial, cheap and certainly deficient is most over-grazed fields, barely added to most bag feeds…so where horses can get it from is from the bones, and could end up with arthritis before age 10.
He probably has just enough energy daily to carry himself, but with a rider on board the energy required for weight-carrying and movement could be too much of an ask nutritionally using the ATP system. It’s quite amazing he hasn’t employed the adrenalin system, and likely due to you not being a forceful rider using common fear/pain methods.
Fear and pain will engage the fight/flight adrenalin system. That energy system is for use for emergencies only, life-threatening - not daily energy use. We ideally don’t want to teach that.
Ideally we want a horse that has natural willingness to work with us, most horses likely do have that willingness, but we can easily miss a major nutritionally energy need like basic minerals/vits on a restricted diet, that bio-chemically does affect their energy levels.
I’d aim to get those nutritional shortfalls filled-in and go from there, before employing ‘yeeha’ high adrenalin environments, or fear/pain tools.
smolmaus
Well-Known Member
Would like to "like" that 10 times Purbee!
ester
Not slacking multitasking
With the other possibilities tested I will say it took me a good few years to realise I did need to feed my own good doer welsh for his work level. He never put on weight as a result of this as he just put the energy into general life.
He didn’t lose weight doing the same amount of work on limited grazing and ad lib hay if in, and his Anglo Arab fieldmate was fine in it inc energy levels. But he was a much nicer ride with some oats on board.
He was also better in winter, generally didn’t see the point of hacking round home or warming up for competitions but would be fine once he heard the bell
, his best dressage was a couple of days after hunting .
He also got a lot better when I learned to stop gripping/kicking/constantly having leg on. Essentially I was acting as a handbrake trying to keep him forward.
He was with me from 12-29 so we had a lot of time to see what worked
He didn’t lose weight doing the same amount of work on limited grazing and ad lib hay if in, and his Anglo Arab fieldmate was fine in it inc energy levels. But he was a much nicer ride with some oats on board.
He was also better in winter, generally didn’t see the point of hacking round home or warming up for competitions but would be fine once he heard the bell
, his best dressage was a couple of days after hunting .He also got a lot better when I learned to stop gripping/kicking/constantly having leg on. Essentially I was acting as a handbrake trying to keep him forward.
He was with me from 12-29 so we had a lot of time to see what worked
leflynn
Well-Known Member
You could also try their haemavite b, its known as go go juice....
I'd go down the fun rides/hacking new places/hunting route, it worked for my lazy ex racer
sbloom
Well-Known Member
How does his posture and fundamental balance look? These being off so commonly underlies laziness. The happy hormones from hacking will perk him up, schooling will reveal it.
lialls
Well-Known Member
Agree with all the suggestions above. I find that taking my mare to the gallops or beach for some faster work in an open environment can remind her that we do have other gears too