Lazy trainer scars my horses legs - can I sue? Big rant!

[amandathepanda]

I am so cross! I sent one of my horses off to my trainer for some schooling before Christmas. When I picked him up, I noticed at the time his cannon bones were a bit scabby but I stupidly believed my trainer when he said he had had a bit of mud fever - despite the fact that my horse has never had mud fever at all in the 5 years I have owned him & he was meant to only be getting a couple of hours turnout a day.

I did notice while my horse was there that he always seemed to have brushing boots on his front legs - fine for when he gets worked as I would usually out boots on him myself when he works, but also all the time whenever he wasn't in work.

The scabbyness has now healed and it is obvious what caused it. Brushing boot rubs! My poor horse now has two scars on both of his cannon bones - one on the front of the cannon bones which are about 4 1/2 inches long & then one on the inside of each cannon that are about 3 inches long. The hair has grown back white (on chestnut legs) and the scars are about an inch wide. I am so cross! I had been planning on showing my horse this year as he is good enough to go county level as a lightweight hunter type - obviously this won't be happening now.

It seems to me that my horse was left in dirty brushing boots that have rubbed because my trainer was too lazy to be bothered to changed them or wash them. Having just picked my other horse up fromt he yard, I was disgusted to discover the inside of my horses saddle cloths (he had about 3 there so plenty to use between washes) were actually mouldy from where hadn't been washed between use and left in a damp, manky tack room. Pure laziness!

To cap it all, while my 20K dressage horse was there, he got kicked in the field and fractured his splint bone which has left him with a 4 inch scar on his back leg and a 2K vets bill - as well as 6 months off work. Ok, accidents happen and you c an accept that, but not with what I have since discovered! My trainer is claiming that it was one of my other horses that kicked my dressage horse... But what I now know that I didn't realise at the time is that my trainer also does a bit of dealing on the side & several times a week strange horses straight out the sales were being turned out with my dressage horse!!! Even if it was one of my horses that kicked my dressage horse, I think it is likely to be caused by my trainer irresponsibly turning a strange horse out with extremely fit & corned up competition horse winding them all up. Competition horses like that in professionally run yards usually get turned out in small paddocks on their own & wrapped up in cotton wool - not turfed out with some random donkey bought the day before from a sale.

I'm hoping mad - as a result of my trainers negligence I have two horses that are badly blemished, one of which is still out of work from the fractured splint he had while in my trainers care. Obviously this is going to have a big effect on my horses value - would you pay 20 + K on a horse with a huge scar on it's leg?! Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before? I'm at the point where I am thinking about taking legal advise as I feel there has been negligence here but I'm not sure if I would have a viable case or not.

Cookies for anyone who has made it this far! And sorry if it seems to be disjointed ramblings, I'm just so cross!

 

[Shipley]

o my god poor you. Not sure where you stand but good luck. What about speaking to your insurance company they may take it up for you?

 

[vieshot]

Cant say i appreciated the phrase 'random donkey' when talking about horses from sales but anyway, consult a solicitor.

 

[Alibear]

Are you a member of the BHS as if so they have a free legal helpline which may give you a better idea of where you stand? Not sure if BD do something similar, that's where I'd start anyway.

Lesson learnt I presume this trainer is no longer your trainer?

I think we all have a few similar horro stories to tell which is why I will never send a horse away ever again.

 

[MadMacher]

I am not surprised you are hopping mad!
I think I would be to, to be fair!
What a nightmare for you and your horse's.
I am sorry I have no idea where you would stand on the leagal side of things!
However if you can find some legal bod I am sure they could advise.
Let us know how you get on.x

 

[the watcher]

As far as the supposed 'mud fever' scarring goes, you would need an independent vet report to support your theory, and that vet would have to be prepared to go to County Court with you. The broke bone is unlucky, but you could never prove the circumstances, unless one of the employees there is prepared to back you up.

Hope you have changed your trainer!

 

[Llwyncwn]

Do you have a copy of the contract you signed before taking your horses to the yard - this could stand you in good stead!

 

[girla]

I am sorry to here of all your troubles with your so called trainer, but it is so hard to trust people 100% with our animals, many years ago i loaned one of my stallions to my Farrier and didn't get to check up on him untill a month later. When i finally did see him i was totaly gob smacked to see a living skeleton looking back at me, needless to say the Farrier (so called friend) said that he had be fretting over some mares. I took him straight away and it took all my efforts to stop myself killing the so and so.

If you are thinking of going down the legal route just make sure you have a cast iron case as usually when animals are envolved the legal systems seem to think that it's never as bad as it seems.

Sorry i can't be of much help, but maybe you should inform others that he's not the best trainer in the world and people should think long & hard before they leave there horses with him.

 

[amandathepanda]

[ QUOTE ]
Cant say i appreciated the phrase 'random donkey' when talking about horses from sales but anyway, consult a solicitor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if the phrase random donkey caused offence - I'm just hopping mad! The horses from the sale weren't quality animals at all, we aren't talking about sports horse sales here, more old fashioned gypsy type sales with horses that they know nothing about being turned out with my competition horses! No isolation period at all before putting these strange horses out with my comptetion horses. I've also since learned the yard frequently gets strangles going through it - could therre be a link?!!

 

[kick_On]

not good at all, i would take legel advise

BUT

Did you sign contract when you left your horses??? which should of made it clear about turnout, boots, bandages etc......

 

[amandathepanda]

Unfortunately I was never offered a contract and it was all done on trust. I think I will speak to Bristish Dressage as surely there is a duty of care involved when someone is running a professional yard? That you expect your horses to be cared for in a way that does not causes them harm? Obviously accidents do happen, but turning strange horses with unknown history out with highly strung competition horses can only be deemed as irresponsible. As for not changing or washing boots & leaving them on to the point that they rub & cause permanent scarring, surely this would never happen in a well managed yard?

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

Very unlucky and would not be happy about the ramdom donkeys going out with my competition horse !!! I must say i have had a horse with a fractured splint bone that came back to compete at high level (BSJA) and i wouldnt say his price was effected - luckily the splint bone is not needed so should not effect the horse ability !!

 

[Bounty]

No advice, but really sorry to hear that this has happened

 

[ColouredFan]

No I suspect this wouldnt happen in most professional yards, but having been to court to try and prove negligence (by a vet) i would say that it is very difficult as its down to you to prove that they did something wrong and this may be difficult. We got legal aid through our house insurance, it would be worth you finding out if you have the same cover?

 

[BBH]

I would definately get some legal advise as there has to be a' duty of care' clause if you accept someone's horses for training for payment. I assume you don't want to keep using this person as it might get 'gutty' and will be difficult to prove. I had a similar experience when I gave notice at one trainer's to go to another. On the day of collection they had taken my horses shoes off, pressumably to make him lame so that the new trainer couldn't do anything with him. As it turned out he was sound but couldn't work for a week until the blacksmith visited and I had paid a weeks full livery for him to stand in. I consulted Solicitors and they were fabulous at giving advice and sorting out the situation. The other thing you can do is to make people aware of what has happened to try and prevent anyone else using him with the same problems.

 

[Kat]

As a "Legal Bod" it certainly sounds like there has been negligence and therefore that you would have a case. However you will need to prove your case. Get proper legal advice from a specialist ASAP, try the BHS helpline as a first port of call.

It would be worth thinking about whether there is anyone who would act as a witness to what went on as you will need to prove that the horses were turned out with unknown animals and that the boots were left on whilst the horse was not working.

You will also have to prove what the normal standard of care you can expect would be in the absence of a contract or similar agreement about standards. Again the BHS would be a good place to start.

If the yard is BHS approved or if the trainer is BD approved then it would be worth a complaint to them, as that may prevent something similar happening to someone else.

Hope that helps, do get some advice from a specialist equestrian law firm, there are a few out there. Don't just go to your local solicitor they probably don't have the necessary knowledge.

Good Luck

Katt

 

[kick_On]

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I was never offered a contract and it was all done on trust.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm really sorry but here in lies your problem.......

I send my horses away when i go holiday and i always sign contract as it protects but sides.... (a bit silly of trainer as it does expose him/her to claims)

Just out of interest have you approach them, on some sort of re-dress? Did they just expect you to claim on your own insurance for kick injury etc...

You do need to speak solictor, as there has been large vets bill etc... but i think your case will be difficult cos it was virbal agreement.....

 

[pottamus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cant say i appreciated the phrase 'random donkey' when talking about horses from sales but anyway, consult a solicitor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if the phrase random donkey caused offence - I'm just hopping mad! The horses from the sale weren't quality animals at all, we aren't talking about sports horse sales here, more old fashioned gypsy type sales with horses that they know nothing about being turned out with my competition horses! No isolation period at all before putting these strange horses out with my comptetion horses. I've also since learned the yard frequently gets strangles going through it - could therre be a link?!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So I take it from that then that 'sports horses' have some sort of special in bred training on how to behave in the field with 'competition' horses then!!!!! So the everyday horse that several people on here have...'gypsy' types act differently in the field do they?!!!
You left £20k worth of horse with someone and could not even be bothered to get a contract set up to protect you and your horse?
Did you just leave you horse then...you did not bother to go up on a regular basis and check it was ok and being looked after right?
You say you noticed the boots were on all the time, but did nothing about it?
Good luck love!!! Smacks to me there is a bit of two way in this one!

 

[Fairynuff]

How did you know what I intended to write?You read my mind missus

M.

 

[BBH]

I think you are being overly harsh here and distracting from the poster needing legal help. She has used this trainer for a while and therefore its not unusual to not have a contract, verbal contract can be binding although harder to prove. I have used an accredited BSJA trainer before without a contract and we had no problems and I trusted him, a lot of business is done in the horse world informally. You can tell she is upset and has already said why she used the term random donkey, give her a break.

 

[Kat]

The fact that there is no contract will not be fatal to a claim, it would make it easier if there was one but there is a claim in negligence, and for that all she needs to prove is that the trainer owed her a duty of care, that the duty has been breached and that the breach caused loss or damage.

GET LEGAL ADVICE!!

 

[amandathepanda]

LHS - thank you for your support!

 

[zigzag]

TBH I would have question when I saw his boots on all the time when I visited .. I would have removed them myself

 

[amandathepanda]

[ QUOTE ]
So I take it from that then that 'sports horses' have some sort of special in bred training on how to behave in the field with 'competition' horses then!!!!! So the everyday horse that several people on here have...'gypsy' types act differently in the field do they?!!!
You left £20k worth of horse with someone and could not even be bothered to get a contract set up to protect you and your horse?
Did you just leave you horse then...you did not bother to go up on a regular basis and check it was ok and being looked after right?
You say you noticed the boots were on all the time, but did nothing about it?
Good luck love!!! Smacks to me there is a bit of two way in this one!

[/ QUOTE ]

Pottamus - sorry but I take exception to your comments. I have no problem at all with gypsy type horses, I used to do carriage driving myself with with one a few years ago and presently own a haflinger pony. My point is, when you are dealing with a highly strung, fit & excitable competition horse it is usually accepted that you are careful what you turn it out with. The risk of damage to horses like that is high as they are exactly the type of horse that will get themsleves into scrapes. I am not saying the gypsy type horses act dfferently in the field to my horse, just that it is not professional to turn new horses which you know absolutely nothing about straight out with valuable competition animals because it is asking for trouble. I don't want to keep my horses in a stable or small pen for life, I want them to be turned out but you don't take unnessesary risks with this type of horse because of their temperament and the fact they often have much less self preservation than native types. Thw whole point of this post is if I have a case to sue for negligence or not.

Yes I did notice the boots were on a lot but I just assumed they were being careful as my horse with the scabby legs was up for sale as a show horse at this point. I was being kept away from this horse deliberately as agreed by my trainer and myself as I am very emotionally attached to him & it had been a horrible decision to decide to sell him. This is not unusual when you are having a horse sold for you by a so called professional - often people send their horses away to be sold as like me, they can not sell their horse objectively because they love the horse too damn much! As it is, the horse is now back home & is off the market.

Oh, and a final point. I visit my horses 4-5 days a week most weeks. I didnt have a contract as I felt I could trust my trainer. If I didn't feel I could trust my trainer before sending my horses there, quite simply they would not have been there.

 

[foraday]

Get a top equine solicitor to sort out this

Stuart Farr at www.laytons.com is by far the best-he also writes the legal stuff in HH!

I hope you can get your neds sorted though!

If you are looking for a professional trainer now that HAVE contracts I take a lot of horses to Fred and Rowena Cook up at Stamford-cannot fault their care to the horses nor the training!

Good luck

 

[at work]

You describe this person as your trainer, who you knew well enough and trusted enough to send one of your horses without doing any further checking. What a pity you didn't ask questions first, you seem to have found out about all sorts of issues with the yard as soon as you had problems to report yourself, so it coudn't have been difficult to check into the level of care they'd provide!

No idea if you could have a claim or not - you need a solicitor.

 

[zoesophie]

Im truly sorry to read your story and it mus be very upsetting for you

The only info I can offer is that I drive past a place on the way to work that advertises as an equine lawyer (think that what it says as I drive past

) - if you want me to get more details feel free to PM me.

 

[Tia]

Firstly, horses are horses are horses; doesn't make the slightest difference whether they are "competition horses" or "old neddies" - they are ALL horses and they all act as horses do. I can't see the relevance as to why you keep going on about the "value" of your horses - every loved horse is valuable, be it financial or emotional, so you do a disservice to many readers in your post I believe.

That aside; yes I think you are quite right to have queried why your horse (as in anyone's private horse) was turned out with horses of dubious/unknown background - I would be very cross about this, which is why the moment I realised this I would be taking my horse home!

Brushing boots being left on all the time - can you prove this? Do you have a vet report confirming this is how your horse got the scars? Will this vet be prepared to stand up in court on your behalf? How will you answer when you are asked why, on you seeing this a number of times on your visits, you did not raise this subject with the trainer.....or take the boots off?

As to the horse injuring itself - well sorry but horses in herds often injure themselves, that's just a risk you have to decide whether to take or not when you allow horses to run together.

I do feel sorry for you, not a nice situation to be in, and I fully appreciate why you feel aggrieved but I'm honestly not sure you have a leg to stand on with regards to taking legal action against this trainer.

Hope you horses recover well though.

 

[Tinker_Belle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I take it from that then that 'sports horses' have some sort of special in bred training on how to behave in the field with 'competition' horses then!!!!! So the everyday horse that several people on here have...'gypsy' types act differently in the field do they?!!!
You left £20k worth of horse with someone and could not even be bothered to get a contract set up to protect you and your horse?
Did you just leave you horse then...you did not bother to go up on a regular basis and check it was ok and being looked after right?
You say you noticed the boots were on all the time, but did nothing about it?
Good luck love!!! Smacks to me there is a bit of two way in this one!

[/ QUOTE ]

Pottamus - sorry but I take exception to your comments. I have no problem at all with gypsy type horses, I used to do carriage driving myself with with one a few years ago and presently own a haflinger pony. My point is, when you are dealing with a highly strung, fit & excitable competition horse it is usually accepted that you are careful what you turn it out with. The risk of damage to horses like that is high as they are exactly the type of horse that will get themsleves into scrapes. I am not saying the gypsy type horses act dfferently in the field to my horse, just that it is not professional to turn new horses which you know absolutely nothing about straight out with valuable competition animals because it is asking for trouble. I don't want to keep my horses in a stable or small pen for life, I want them to be turned out but you don't take unnessesary risks with this type of horse because of their temperament and the fact they often have much less self preservation than native types. Thw whole point of this post is if I have a case to sue for negligence or not.

Yes I did notice the boots were on a lot but I just assumed they were being careful as my horse with the scabby legs was up for sale as a show horse at this point. I was being kept away from this horse deliberately as agreed by my trainer and myself as I am very emotionally attached to him & it had been a horrible decision to decide to sell him. This is not unusual when you are having a horse sold for you by a so called professional - often people send their horses away to be sold as like me, they can not sell their horse objectively because they love the horse too damn much! As it is, the horse is now back home & is off the market.

Oh, and a final point. I visit my horses 4-5 days a week most weeks. I didnt have a contract as I felt I could trust my trainer. If I didn't feel I could trust my trainer before sending my horses there, quite simply they would not have been there.

[/ QUOTE ]I agree with you. When you are 'friends' with somebody or you know somebody enough to trust them with the care of your horse you don't think ahead to kicked splint bones, scarred legs & laze. It isn't always black & white.

It is all too easy to judge from the outside looking in......

 

[Tia]

Sorry I totally disagree with your comments. Friends may be friends but no way would I turn a blind eye to treatment of my horses if I felt it was wrong. I would raise any concerns I had, regardless of whether I had known the person for 20 years or just met them. My horses' welfare, I'm afraid, comes first...always!