Lazy under saddle in menage

[Winbob]

Hi, I'm looking for some help with my share pony.

I have been sharing my 14yr old 13.3hh Welsh X since January. I have been working her fairly consistently since then, riding or lunging approximately 4 times a week.

I have got her working nicely on the lunge, and can get 3 lovely transitions/gaits from her. Listening to everything that I say and doing everything that I ask of her, all with enthusiasm and impulsion. She is used to running around with her head it the air, so have been asking her to lower her head (been using a loose lunging system on her, not every time though), to engage her behind a bit more. She used to be a driving pony and is very much all in the front, and nothing in the back. She'll work nicely on the lunge with or without tack.

Out hacking she's alert, responsive and works nicely also. Transitions are almost instant and she listens to me always.

In the menage under saddle however she's a different pony. I get very little from her. Transitions are poor and slow, and she lacks impulsion. I feel myself nagging all the time to get her going, even though I know it's not helping. Pony club kicks and sharp flicks with a schooling whip work for a few strides, and then it's just flat again. I have been working on halt, walk, trot transitions for the most part. Keeping things interesting, lots of circles, turn on the quarters etc. Her owner tells me that spurs don't have any effect. She's always been the same for every rider.

Teeth, saddle and all the usual have been checked recently. She's fairly chunky but is much fitter than she was before, and she has developed more muscle since January.

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Mmmm...... sounds like she's bored in the arena.

You may need to think outside the box with this one and do something totally different to grab her attention and get her listening again.

Just a completely whacky idea, but why not try some TREC/Horse Agility with her? get some "obstacles" in the arena like you'd get in a horse agility or TREC comp (look on the TREC or Horse Agility websites to give you ideas, or better still get yourself along to one of their training days).

I am just making a suggestion: your mare obviously needs stimulation and interest - and not only would this give her something to think about but could also open up a competely new avenue for you both! TREC and Horse Agility are great fun to compete with and really get horses thoroughly spookproof into the bargain.

Just an idea........... do with it what you will.

 

[Shay]

Sensible thought - she could be school sour and needing a change. I've known ponies that literally could not be worked in a school at all because of this. All schooling etc had to be done on hack, in fields etc.

But also - is the surface of the school a bit deep for her? Sometimes low grade lameness only shows under saddle and in a Manege. The other possibilities is if your school is quite small and she has problems with tight turns under saddle?

 

[Winbob]

Mmmm...... sounds like she's bored in the arena.

You may need to think outside the box with this one and do something totally different to grab her attention and get her listening again.

Just a completely whacky idea, but why not try some TREC/Horse Agility with her? get some "obstacles" in the arena like you'd get in a horse agility or TREC comp (look on the TREC or Horse Agility websites to give you ideas, or better still get yourself along to one of their training days).

I am just making a suggestion: your mare obviously needs stimulation and interest - and not only would this give her something to think about but could also open up a competely new avenue for you both! TREC and Horse Agility are great fun to compete with and really get horses thoroughly spookproof into the bargain.

Just an idea........... do with it what you will.

I might have a go at this, thanks. Will create some simple obstacles and see how we get on.

 

[Winbob]

Sensible thought - she could be school sour and needing a change. I've known ponies that literally could not be worked in a school at all because of this. All schooling etc had to be done on hack, in fields etc.

But also - is the surface of the school a bit deep for her? Sometimes low grade lameness only shows under saddle and in a Manege. The other possibilities is if your school is quite small and she has problems with tight turns under saddle?

Yes, the surface of the school is deep at the moment. It is not small though. I did take her into one of the fields once, but she took off with me, and I lost control, so we've never done it again!

On a separate note she has a habit of leaning and moving sideways in walk, not abruptly, almost like she's attempting a leg yield but I'm not asking her to. We'll start off on the track in one corner and by the time we're at the other side we'll be halfway between the centre line and the track. I try to correct her using my leg, tapping her on the shoulder with my whip and steering her in the right direction, but she continues to do it.

 

[Toffee44]

Are you riding my pony?

Welsh x used to drive. Fab forward going hack etc. Lovely in long reins / lunge.

Today was the first day ever I left the school happy with what I produces from her.

What I have been doing for last few weeks is 10mins MAX in school and then hack. Im a happy hacker really. No interest in schooling as don't have transport to go compete. She is a very stuffy mare who would normally go round with head up etc. Also canter is a big issue for us. Today that worked too. Will often not give me the transition at all.

Now these photos are not pretty riding but she felt sooo good. Im sure someone will critique thats fine. I have finally summoned the courage to ask for some proper schooling lessons. I think just little tiny sessions and lots and lots of praise has helped millions with her. She gave me 25 min of nice consistent work today. Not much for some but maybe take a step back from being in the school small sweet high praise sessions.

I wouldn't normally post here in competing but you describe exactly what I feel and get frustrated at. I wish you luck today I truly feel I had my pay off.

 

[Toffee44]

As for moving sideways it sounds like shes invading the shoulder, again like my mare.

Still a work in progress.....

Just get in and correct her as soon as you feel it. Inside leg +++ and whip.

What I have been doing is when she does it, get her straight again, do a 10m circle from that pojnt and repeat the straight line your wanted. It seems to be working. And praise praise praise.

What bit are you in?

 

[Shay]

I know you said you had teeth and saddle checked OP but the sidling sideways combined with everything else suggests pain or long standing difficulty carrying a rider. Are you able to get a session with a good instructor? It would be useful to see what she actually does from the ground. It might be that you are sitting slightly lop sided and for some reason that is just pressing on something which tends to show more in the school than when her adrenaline is up on a hack. Or that there is something low grade and niggly somewhere.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You could be asking her unintentionally to move sideways, or the tack could be pushing her because of a slightly less than perfect fit. She probably hates working in the school, if she has been a driving pony, used to getting out and about. You can school on a hack, it certainly doesn't need to be done in a rectangular enclosure! You will become a better rider if you do your schooling round natural objects and your share pony will be helped to understand what you are asking for if you ask for movements around puddles/ between trees etc.
What does the owner think about the way you are riding her pony? Do you have lessons from a good RI?

 

[EQUIDAE]

It sounds like a rider problem. Maybe you are inadvertently blocking her back - a good instructor could help.

 

[Winbob]

Are you riding my pony?

Welsh x used to drive. Fab forward going hack etc. Lovely in long reins / lunge.

Today was the first day ever I left the school happy with what I produces from her.

What I have been doing for last few weeks is 10mins MAX in school and then hack. Im a happy hacker really. No interest in schooling as don't have transport to go compete. She is a very stuffy mare who would normally go round with head up etc. Also canter is a big issue for us. Today that worked too. Will often not give me the transition at all.

Now these photos are not pretty riding but she felt sooo good. Im sure someone will critique thats fine. I have finally summoned the courage to ask for some proper schooling lessons. I think just little tiny sessions and lots and lots of praise has helped millions with her. She gave me 25 min of nice consistent work today. Not much for some but maybe take a step back from being in the school small sweet high praise sessions.

I wouldn't normally post here in competing but you describe exactly what I feel and get frustrated at. I wish you luck today I truly feel I had my pay off.

I'm going to try that, thanks. It's interesting that there's someone who has the exact same problem. I just find it takes so long to warm her up, that I don't think I'd even get anything good out of her for 10 minutes.

Canter is also an issue with us. Very rarely makes the transition under saddle, on the lunge it's instant.

She's in a french link snaffle at the moment, but open to ideas. She always foams a lot.

On some days, very rarely though, I will get good work out of her under saddle, the other day she worked beautifully for me (mostly when there's others schooling in the arena at the same time), but 85% of the time it's flat.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to get her vitals checked again. It's not really my place too, and I'd be stepping on the toes of her owner.

Her owner thinks that I ride her well, but I think I need to invest in some lessons.

 

[Goldenstar]

A driving horse has no idea what leg aids are .
When you ride them you need to give voice aids and leg aids at the same time to make the horse understand the role of your leg .
I have turned several driving horses into riding and driving horses and you just have to take time to train them what you want .
It think this is likely to be a large part of your problem .

 

[Winbob]

A driving horse has no idea what leg aids are .
When you ride them you need to give voice aids and leg aids at the same time to make the horse understand the role of your leg .
I have turned several driving horses into riding and driving horses and you just have to take time to train them what you want .
It think this is likely to be a large part of your problem .

She responds well to my voice on the lunge, this is how I get her going so nicely. In the saddle not so much but clicking and clucking, hup-up, etc does help.

 

[Toffee44]

Bareback riding helps too. Get to feel the pony your riding. If anything it made me realise how "dead" to leg she was and the small things that helped. Get a good instructor and one who knows ponies. Had a rubbish lesson with someone who was teaching me like an idiot on a big horse the more I forced the worse we both felt. Fab lesson with someone who understood naughty green ponies.