Leagal help - PLEASE

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wheezy

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Hi sorry if this ends up quite long. I really dont know what to do or where i stand. Any help will be greatfully recieved. Thank you in advance.....

I was given and accepted the chance of moving my 2 horses free of charge to a field near by. When the horses moved to the field i asked a few times if the field owner would like rent and she said no. We had no contract written or verbal.

Over the winter the horses did chew trees which were next to the field and some fence posts. The fence has started to lean on one side of the field this started to happen at the very start of the winter as the ground started getting wet not the horses leaning on it. The fence does need repaired but is not un-useable my horses never got out of the field.

I have had a friend who used to work for the forestry commision go up and prune and trim back all of the trees and he sees no reason why there should be none that survive. It is the fence that is causing us a issue.
With the fence I offerd first of all my husband and myself go up and do any repairs needed. We would replace any broken posts get wire re-tensioned and put wire straight. Some of the posts have just been chewed at the top and still do there job so we wouldnt replace these. The field owner will not allow us to do this. She has given us a quote for £2850 to rip out the whole fence and replace everything posts, wire clips the lot.

I have spoke to citizens advice and the man i spoke to does not see it fair us having to replace old for new. The fence is at least 5 years old. It has had horses and sheep in previous to my horses going in the field. Some posts are broken at the very bottom which we think may be down to rotting and possably extra preassure of the horses leaning on them etc.

I was going to call a couple of contractors to come up and give me a quote (s) for REPAIRING the fence so it is to a full working order which the field owner is saying it is not at the moment. She is threatening me with court if I dont pay the bill of £2850 for the fence to be replaced. I am so scared of what might happen however i also dont have £2850 to give her so please dont be harsh on me i would just like some advice on what am I meant to do and where i do stand. Do i carry on with getting someone up for a repairing quote and see what she says?
I should also add my horses have since moved!

Thank you to anyone that managed to read and make sense of my problem!
 
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Are your horses insured? If so, you could speak to the legal people, or if you have BHS Gold you could speak to them.
I would get back on to Citizens Advice, but be careful not to admit any liability at all in the meantime. I can't see how she can hold you to pay for any repairs at all without a contract and think it's a bit of a shame that you offered to do anything at all.
 
It sounds like she wants to get her field re-fenced for free - at your expense. Move your horses asap and tell her to take a flying leap...?
 
I recently started a tread about my TB chewing the fences on my enclosed yard.
I have had a quote for £800 to replace 200yrds of post and rail x 2 rails.
How does that compare?
We had 3 acres p&railed 12years ago and still in good strong condition at a cost of £5,000.
I really think you should not be paying this
1, you do not "rent" as no payment is made, you are "borrowing" the field
2, There is no contract so you are not a livery.
3, I have liveries paying £15.00 per week and they are NOT responsible for maintaining the fields etc I AM!!!!!
4, As a livery with a contract you would pay rent for stable and turnout. you would not be responsible for maintenance or damage to yard etc. for instance one of my liveries pony passed away in the stable, we had to get a jcb to take off the front of the stable to get him out.
Did we charge them NO!!
I would explain this to your "friend" that the responsibility is the landowners.
Keep us updated.
 
I'm a bit surprised at the advice from the man at Citizen's Advice, I'd have thought it wouldn't even come to whether or not you should replace old with new. If you can get advice from someone who understands equestrian stuff better it might make more sense.
 
Thank you for your replys. I thought that if the fence was so badly damaged that it was making the field un-useable the horses would of got out. Which they never did. The horses are not insured.
She has now taken to phoning me a lot. Most days. One day we had visitors and I was outside and our visitors answered the phone. They passed on the message that she called and I thought that i would call her back once they had gone. She called me a further 9 times in 1 hour until i gave up and called her just to stop her phoning me. I feel she is harrasing(sp) me.

Thank you all for being so nice. I am now beginning to think my weeks of tears are for nothing!
 
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So if she called her solicitors would it come to anything as there is no contract or would it go to a small claims court?
Does anyone know of a equine legal person/company i could talk to?
 
Move ASAP no notice required as you do not have a contract, she does not have a leg to stand on and due to costs she is asking we are not talking small claims!!

I have just gone through courts on a totally different matter and my legal costs were £5K, even though the other party did eventually admit liability, so realisticaly she must be one crazy person to pursue you through court.

Just walk away............
 
Sod that. I'd send her a cheque for a couple of hundred quid in full and final settlement of this matter. Write at the top of the letter in capitals WITHOUT PREJUDICE and keep a copy. As soon as she cashes this cheque, it's issue over. Explain that if she chooses not to accept this, then to return the cheque with her solicitiors details by return of post so that you can pass the matter on to your solicitor.
Just call her bluff, the womans a joker.
 
Can you move your horses somewhere else ASAP? I think I would do that,meanwhile,when she next rings you tell her your horses have not caused the damage and that she must prove they have if she wants you to repair the fence,even if she can prove it,which is unlikely,just repair the chewed bits and not the rest. I cannot see the contractors actually doing the work, look at it from their view point, Mrs Smith rings them,gets a quote ,phones them back and says come and do the work,the contractors either ask for money up front,or do the work and send her a bill,she then says "But I'm not paying, Mrs Jones is" contractors say "********* [insert own expleteives here!] "You employed us Mrs Smith, you can B****ywell pay us".
 
She said that i would have to pay all the costs. I also do think she is mad!! My horses are now moved. Thank you
 
I can tell you from personal experience that judges don't do 'he said-she said' they look at facts. This is the problem when things are not down in black and white.

They might question why you had your horses there free of charge though and feel the cost of repair is down to you.

Best advice I could give is to join the BHS gold membership and you can get legal advice from them. It also gives you 3rd party insurance should your horses get out and cause an accident, well worth the 50 odd quid ;)

Sorry thats a bit rambled but hope it makes some sense.
 
CAn you get your other half to ring her and tell her in no uncertain terms to stop bothering you? You could say you will contact the Police about harrassment.
 
gugglebum said:
Sod that. I'd send her a cheque for a couple of hundred quid in full and final settlement of this matter. Write at the top of the letter in capitals WITHOUT PREJUDICE and keep a copy. As soon as she cashes this cheque, it's issue over. Explain that if she chooses not to accept this, then to return the cheque with her solicitiors details by return of post so that you can pass the matter on to your solicitor.
Just call her bluff, the womans a joker.
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ditto this
 
Horsesforever1 said:
CAn you get your other half to ring her and tell her in no uncertain terms to stop bothering you? You could say you will contact the Police about harrassment.
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Funny you say that my partner is in the poice and is our local officer!!!! So he knows haha.
She said she has evidence. Although i dont really know what of as i am not denying that they were there. I did leave it for a few weeks to see if she would calm down etc but she hasnt infact maybe got worse!
I did say to her I had someone going to have a look t the fence for me, I was thinking for a price for the repairs. Do i carry on with this? She has asked for the money up front
 
Back 20 years ago, you could consult a lawyer and get one letter written for £25. If a similar scheme still exists I would consult a land lawyer - your local agricultural supplies place or agricultural auction house will know of one.

I'm no expert, but I don't think you owe her a penny as she invited you to use her land and your horses did nothing unexpected for a horse. I don't think you should pay her anything at all, or there is a risk you could be seen to be accepting liability.

Personally, I would ignore her as she does not have a leg to stand on with demanding money from you, but if you want to put your mind at rest, do go for one meeting with a lawyer. Check your house insurance, many policies have legal fee insurance included in them.
 
agree with cptrayes, don't pay a penny, don't get anyone to look at the fence. You offered to repair the fence and she refused. I assuming your horses went in the field last year as you mention over the winter, how many fence posts have you come across that will rot at the bottom in a year? Because you had no contract she has no right to ask you to pay for anything. Just ensure that you don't admit liability in case she tries to take it further.
 
I agree most of the above. The damage seems to have occurred over a period of at least several months so why did she not raise the matter immediately she noticed the problem? It sounds as if she wanted the field grazed off free of charge and now wants it fenced for free!

Put a block on her telephone number so she can't call you and report her harassment (which is an offence) to the police.
 
I'd get a written quote for the repair of the fence. Tell her that from now on, any contact she makes must be in writing as you have sought legal advice, at least that way, she'll stop pestering you on the phone. When she does eventually write, you can send her a copy of the quote. I honestly think you should let her go ahead and sue you. She will have to pay to start court proceedings and you can show how unreasonable she's being. It's proposterous to expect you to pay almost £3k to replace her fencing with new
 
First of all move the horses - she sounds like a complete nutter and there is no knowing what she would do to the horses if she does not get her way.

Then, write her a letter and send it by recorded delivery. Take photos of the damage and tell her in the letter that you are not happy to replace the whole fence but only fix it and bring it back to the same state as when you entered the field. The trees, not sure about that but I would in the same letter offer her arboriculture services.

When she next rings you tell her that you have done the above and tell her that you will not be replacing the whole fence.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
Can you move your horses somewhere else ASAP? I think I would do that,meanwhile,when she next rings you tell her your horses have not caused the damage and that she must prove they have if she wants you to repair the fence,even if she can prove it,which is unlikely,just repair the chewed bits and not the rest. ".
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I don't think this is fair by the way - if your horse has damaged the fencing and trees then you should repair them our of fair play.
 
An interesting dilemma, not detracting from the stress you are under in any way.

I'm trying to think if it could be construed that there was a contract in place. She provides the land as her consideration; maybe she likes seeing horses on her land/wants the grass kept down, so you provide the horses, which is your consideration, hence a contract being in place.

She knows that horses will lean on fences, chew on trees, etc., so what yours have done is nothing out of the ordinary, therefore I would have said it was normal fair wear and tear.

You have some options as I see it, bearing in mind I am not a land solicitor!

a) the letter with a cheque for a couple of hundred (if that is a fair estimate) as suggested, not forgetting the 'Without prejudice' at the top;

b) a session with a land solicitor, then a letter from them. I suggest a specialist as land law has weird vagaries in it;

c) and this one I'd do no matter what other route I took, log all this harasssment you are receiving, and log your responses. Clearly and without emotion if you can, other than some note of how it's making you feel/affecting you.

Hope it is resolved soon hun.
 
I trained in law many years ago now but specialised in environmental law so not a specialist on land but in terms of moral obligation- I would either speak to a solicitor or B send a cheque for a reasonable sum that would cover the cost of the damaged fence posts, some wire and a little towards labour and explain that as the fece was not new blah blah blah. If she cashes it she has accepted it- and the cost of the cheque to you is effectively like livery- as not many people are fortuneate to get free livery in the first place.

Boot on other foot- if I let out a field of mine and found that the fence was leaning after they had used it- I would expect it repaired to the standard it was at before I lent it out. Its not a livery yard so I think who deals with fencing may be different.

ETA- when we borrowed 10 acres from a farmer next door to us- out yearling got through the fence and ate all the sapling hedging plants and stretched the wire- he asked us to pay up which we did- we damaged it- we paid- the fence was not unusable but we had damaged is field
 
BonneMaman said:
I don't think this is fair by the way - if your horse has damaged the fencing and trees then you should repair them our of fair play.
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I agree that the field should be left in the condition it was found, regardless of the legal position.

I don't think this sounds like it needs a completely new fence, more a few posts knocked back upright and replacing a few top rails.

Good luck, and next time, if there's no contract, you'll know to steer clear. :)
 
Naturally said:
I agree that the field should be left in the condition it was found, regardless of the legal position.

I don't think this sounds like it needs a completely new fence, more a few posts knocked back upright and replacing a few top rails.

Good luck, and next time, if there's no contract, you'll know to steer clear. :)
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Yep, I agree with this. If I had a field to lend for free or rent out, I would expect the class of person utilising it to leave it in the condition they found it in.
 
BonneMaman said:
I don't think this is fair by the way - if your horse has damaged the fencing and trees then you should repair them our of fair play.
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But the OP has offered to repair the fencing and the owner has refused, saying she wants it completely replacing?
OP, I would speak to her one more time and say you are willing to repair the fencing or organize the repairs yourselves. If she refuses, well, you've moved your horses so I'd say you're well out of it!
 
Blimey...what a to do you are having...
Ok...here we go.....I have NO idea about the legal side of things but as was suggested by a previous poster, if you are BHS Gold, there is a free legal helpline.

Re the whole fencing thing.....If you were to get a reputable fencing contractor to inspect the posts and rails, he would be able to tell you that quality posts do not ROT and break off in less than a year.....so IMO the posts were on their way out before you put said beasties in the field.

All might end well if there is a written statement to this effect. Landowner may well have had a quote from someone without being given the full facts, and she may have said your beasties did the damage over 5 years.

I really feel for you and how you get a positive outcome.
Best wishes
Bryndu
 
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