Leaning on the bit

[Gorgeous George]

Recently George has been leaning on the bit on the left rein (3 ring roller happy mouth), I don't know if this is just because he is miffed that I am asking him to start working in an outline and he is beginning to do this nicely, but still likes to have his say sometimes, and the left is his least flexible side, or if the bit just isn't right? So I am thinking of trying a different bit, especially as we are hoping to do a walk/trot dressage test soon and the 3 ring isn't allowed. I have tried riding him on the snaffle ring of his 3-ring and he is just the same?? By the way his teeth and back are fine.

Any suggestions, bitting is just a minefield to me!

 

[chestnut cob]

Do you have lessons? I would get a good instructor to give you some pointers or get on. Sounds to me like it's just him trying it on a bit and evading you rather than needing a bit change. If he leans on just one side then I would just gently play with that rein when he does it while using your leg, smoothly, and when he gives you give.

 

[asbo]

jay used to lean in anything other than his waterford hanging cheek.

i found that if i make sure he is working from his backend he doesnt do it at all unless we are out hacking, then i have a bad habbit of not asking him to work as much lol.

 

[Gorgeous George]

yes I do have lessons, but to be honest it is probably because I am a cr*p rider! I will need to find another bit when we give the dressage test a try though??

 

[chestnut cob]

Change it in that case then, you might find you can just use the gag for hacking then. What mouthpiece do you have in the gag and which ring do you ride in? If you only use the snaffle ring then you could try a hanging cheek which is dressage legal.

I'm sure it's not because you're crap, sounds like he's just evading you!

 

[Gorgeous George]

It is a happy mouth and has the peanut roller in the middle, I ride with the reins on the middle ring, I have tried a hanging cheek with the same mouthpiece - same problem. George has a big mouth and big tongue by the way. I know my leg aids arn't always strong/clear enough, just don't want to confuse the dear boy!

 

[hannah87]

i posted a very similar post to this as my horse has started to lean on the bit, got some v helpful replies i think it will be a page or two bak from this now, kerellis replies were v interesting and worthwhile a look

 

[chestnut cob]

Well if you have the same problem in the "milder" (ie dressage legal) bit and the bit is dressage legal, you may as well change over to that and learn to deal with the evasion. To be brutally honest you need to work on getting him working correctly and stopping him taking the pee.

That said....if you're not planning on dressaging anytime soon then a waterford snaffle is v good IME for horses that lean on the bit. There's nothing for them to lean on there. Had my Welshy in one for about a year til he stopped leaning - obviously that wasn't the cure but combined with regular schooling/lessons it really helped.

 

[Shilasdair]

If your horse is leaning on the left rein, then the problem stems from him being lazy in his left hind leg, so encouraging him to engage it will help.
Try spiraling in from a 20m circle to a 10m one in walk or sitting trot, then, keeping left bend but a soft left rein, leg yield him back out to a 20m circle. If you can, give the inside rein a few times as you do this (but not if he is resisting).
You could also leg yield from the three quarter line to the track in walk and trot then canter when you reach the corner.
Shoulder in along the long side can also help to supply your horse and engage the hindquarters.
Also you can do neck flexion on a 20m circle - keep his body bent on the circle with your legs, then flex his neck to the inside (more than the circle bend) then to the outside, then on the correct circle bend. Try to work on both reins equally.
Finally, try not to give him a steady rein to lean on (unless you like holding him up!) instead try to soften your hand forwards and stroke his neck, or gently squeeze the rein.
Apologies for the length of this reply

S

 

[Cahill]

[ QUOTE ]
If your horse is leaning on the left rein, then the problem stems from him being lazy in his left hind leg, so encouraging him to engage it will help.
Try spiraling in from a 20m circle to a 10m one in walk or sitting trot, then, keeping left bend but a soft left rein, leg yield him back out to a 20m circle. If you can, give the inside rein a few times as you do this (but not if he is resisting).
You could also leg yield from the three quarter line to the track in walk and trot then canter when you reach the corner.
Shoulder in along the long side can also help to supply your horse and engage the hindquarters.
Also you can do neck flexion on a 20m circle - keep his body bent on the circle with your legs, then flex his neck to the inside (more than the circle bend) then to the outside, then on the correct circle bend. Try to work on both reins equally.
Finally, try not to give him a steady rein to lean on (unless you like holding him up!) instead try to soften your hand forwards and stroke his neck, or gently squeeze the rein.
Apologies for the length of this reply

S

[/ QUOTE ]

thought you only done funny stuff

 

[Gorgeous George]

Thanks guys, and bramble87 I've just looked at your post -v helpful. When we school we do lots of transitions, leg yields, circles, flexing both ways etc. as this is what my instructor suggested. I think some of the problem may be that my legs aren't strong enough, and George isn't the most balanced/flexible horse in the world. I know that when he does it I tend to hang onto him so he doesn't get a reward for his evasion, but I will try a mometary dropping of the reins to see if this stops him relying on me. He does only do it on the left rein though.

 

[burtie]

Without seeing you both I can't advise for sure, but in my experience leaning on one rein or the other is a rider fault 9 times out of 10 if other physical problems have been ruled out.

Try making a very concious effort to keep a consistent contact on both reins at all times,this will mean you may need to be stonger with the left leg for a time. Also you can keep the right hand right against the horses neck but not crossed over in order to help with steering to the left without having to pull on the left rein thus making the leaning problem worse.

Also make sure that when riding to the left you turn your upper body to the inside and bring the right shoulder forwards, this should all help lighten up the left rein.

Equally when riding on the right you can bring the left rein against the neck but make sure that the right rein contact is consistent and never dropped.

I always teach rider to ride as if no bridle holding the bit in place but that the bit is made of cotton wool so if they pull on it, it will just fall apart, this is the kind of light but consistent contact I like to achieve.


Hope that helps a bit.

 

[kerilli]

umm, that isn't a good bit for trying to school in at all.
Okay,this isn't just to you, it's to everyone who says "i school in a waterford cos they can't lean on it"... right.
first, you cannot get a proper contact/communication in a bit with more than 2 links, it’s impossible. Tbh 1 link is best (or a myler with a smooth flat barrel in the middle that barely flexes, so it’s really acting more like a single-link with very limited movement), as I explained in my other very long post! The more links, the less precise the aid to the horse that comes from your two hands working slightly independently of each other. Basically, the wibbly bits in the middle confuse the message.
The contact you want for flatwork is usually very different to the one you want for jumping, xc etc. Most horses have their own way of going for that - if you don’t believe me, look at the difference between the way Lucinda Fredericks rides Brit in a dressage test and xc. Constant contact on the flat, and total obedience without a fight, much more fighty and moving contact over jumps, because that’s what that mares likes/needs. I can think of a lot more examples if necessary!
So, a Waterford for jumping, and hunting, and even hacking if he’s a bit strong, fine. But NEVER for flatwork. Ditto 3-ring gags, Pelhams, etc… no no NO for flatwork. You cannot teach your horse the absolute basics of direct connection from the legs and seat to the soft elastic hand if you have the added complication of curb… that’s why dressage horses aren’t started in a double bridle, but need years of training before progressing to one!
I really hope that makes sense and gets the message across. Yes, it’s not always easy to show a clueless horse how to come round and soft in a snaffle. It can take months, but it’s worth it. Yes, you can get his nose in much more easily with curb. But it isn’t actually teaching him anything at all, whereas in the right snaffle, if the teeth are right and you have been shown what to do with your legs and hands, and when to do it, you will get steady constant learning and progression.
Here endeth the second lecture. Award yourself 3 smarties, 7 gold stars and the beverage of your choice if you got this far.

Oh, also - they lean on YOUR HANDS, not the bit. if you consistently soften every single time he leans, again and again and again and again, with quick checks in between if he accelerates, he will learn that there's nothing there to lean against and so he has to carry himself, you won't do it for him. you decide the amount of contact he's allowed, not him!
extra gold star.

 

[Shilasdair]

[quote...(unless you like holding him up!) instead try to soften your hand forwards and stroke his neck, or gently squeeze the rein.
Apologies for the length of this reply

S

[/ QUOTE ]

thought you only done funny stuff

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I should have said I've never ridden, and only pretend to have three horses, but that would have spoiled the effect.
S

 

[Shilasdair]

I agree with Kerilli.
Waterfords are naff bits for flatwork, and have a tendency to make your horse seem lighter only because they drop the contact entirely and curl behind the bit. Once you have a horse that evades by collecting against you, you have an even worse problem to sort out.
And regarding weak legs - riding isn't about strength...if you develop your thigh muscles to get the grip of death perfected, all that'll happen is your pony's intestines will come out of his nose. Try backing the leg up with a tap with the whip and he'll learn to respect the aid more.
S

 

[lizzieuk1]

thats great advice, my horse can lean a little though hes still only 5 so can be forgiven at the moment, but ur suggestions are good and i'll def try them

 

[Safina]

Cracking advice from Kerilli - I cannot recommend giving away the rein frequently and taking away the opportunity to lean enough.

 

[kerilli]

Re: "And regarding weak legs - riding isn't about strength...if you develop your thigh muscles to get the grip of death perfected, all that'll happen is your pony's intestines will come out of his nose."

*snorts with laughter*

God yes, absolutely! but how often do we hear of effin instructors saying "more leg more leg more leg" until we'd be forgiven for thinking that unless you have thews like Arnie Schwarzenegger, you can't ride. If they're implying that you have to use more leg than you thought possible to get a decent working trot, how the HELL are you going to get medium and extended?
Have these people never seen Lee Pearson on and off a horse? he can't have any leg strength at all, really (especially in lower leg) but his horses go superbly... and he schools them up too, he isn't just dropped on to win medals. jeeez.
it's not about strength. when ever was it, with horses?

 

[chestnut cob]

You don't need more strength in your legs - if you keep using more and more leg he will just get dead to it, then you will end up debating putting spurs on. If he doesn't go off your leg then you need to go back to basics and make him more consistent to your leg aids. He should go from a little squeeze and stay where you put him. If he doesn't go, then back it up with a smack of the whip.

If he's not flexible then I would say you need to be doing lots of small circles to get him bending, tiny half circles, thing like that to get him moving and bending.

When he leans on you if you hang on then you're doing exactly what he wants you to do, which is holding him up. Don't suddenly "drop" him, just play gently with the rein he hangs on until he lets go. You might need to do it quite forcefully but once he realises there's nothing there to hang on to he will let go. As soon as he lets go, you stop playing the rein - he gives, you give as a reward.

What does your instructor say about it?

 

[Gorgeous George]

my instructor has suggested the transitions, circles, leg yielding, flexing etc. but not releasing the rein, so i'll give that a go. She is also go to bring along a loose ring myler bit and loose ring lozenge bit to try so we will see.

 

[HenryandPeta]

Kerilli has said all I would have said, and no doubt phrased it better! I school Henry in a loose ring snaffle, never anything else. He hacks and xc's in his Pelham though.

You also mentioned George has a big tongue - same here (I mean Henry not me!). You could try a straight bar with a port or a mullen mouth, it just gives the horse a bit more space in his mouth...