Legal help please.

Slave2Magic

Slave2Magic

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 October 2006
Messages
979
Location
West Yorkshire
Visit site
The yard where I keep my mare has a public footpath across the fields. A local councillor has recently demanded that it be reopened even though there were other ways across the land that were not official routes. The official path has been reopened and the other ones closed off. There are signs stating why and arrows to show the official route. So far we have had all the gates left open, fencing cut down and abusive walkers refusing to take the proper route. I am worried where all this is going to end. The police have been informed and say it is a civil matter! Is it not trespass and criminal damage?
 
No such offence as trespass, but cutting down fences would be criminal damage (being rude and leaving gates open - sadly not!)

Can't you go back to the councillor and explain users of the path were happier with the old route and go back to that? You can get official paths moved a bit for convenience/ safety - especially if people like the old route. Might be easier to get the official route changed?
 
If people stray from the path, yes it is trespass but as the police say, that is a civil matter and up to the land owner to prosecute individuals for any damage done by them. Pays to have a camera handy and someone around who can persuade trespassers to give their name and address - unless you catch them in the act there is little proof. Could the landowners not find some way of keeping the public to the path.
They could always apply for a diversion order - not sure of the cost but it involves posting notices and advertising the new route and waiting for objections, but worth investigating if there is somewhere better on their land it could be sited.
 
It's hard to descibe but the official path goes diagonally across the field from a corner to a style onto a public bridleway. The closed off one runs along the bottom of the field from the main road to the public bridleway. The people concerned are deliberatly going on the bottom one by cutting the fencing down.They are doing it in daylight so we intend to try and catch them at it and get photographic proof.
 
I think the councillor is right and unfortunately unless you request a diversion etc that could take some time its probably easier to let walkers stick with it. A lot of walkers are terrified of horses thankfully!

However your council can provide metal self closing gates and a balloon type that horses cannot get out of(in fact your horses will love them as they make good bottom scratchers and are very solid farm types. You can also ask them for signs to say keep ie dogs under control due to livestock etc. They are not allowed to deviate from the path this is tresspass and must pick up any dog poo too. You can get signs for that as well from council(in fact they may put them up for you).

I agree if you can get a camera and put up as sign to say CCTV is in force due to dog excrement and litter that should just about cover it. I would use the dog poo bit as the councils do take that seriously and will act on that bit. It is very annoying the public leaving gates open and I have had this happen tome. But definitely get onto them for the self closing balloon type gates as this will cost them! I hope the walkers have insurance so that if your animals escape you can sue them ie hence CCTV. Good luck.

PsI would electrify and you must put signs up too that its electric every I think 200metres cost about £1.50 yellow signs.
 
People are annoying aren't they? Especially when they just believe they have a right everywhere. I would speak to your local Parish Councillor and see whether you can have awareness of the proper route raised. My OH had people wonder from the footpath last week and damage expensive equipment, there really is no need.
 
They could apply for a diversion and have it re-routed around the edge of the field, that way they could fence that part off so you won't get complaints about people being threatened by horses etc.

Shame that people are cutting through the fence, no need for that kind of behaviour, especially since they have always been able to access the path/field.
 
Is there no way to wall off the old route rather than just a fence? Some thing more substantial. Or put up a sign as well? Maybe put some leaflets for the walkers - to say why it has been moved and ask THEM to also contact the councilor to voice that they are not happy?

I am guessing that the proper route is longer than the alternative - which by the way you describe it is preferred and actually better for everyone?
 
EmmasMummy said:
Is there no way to wall off the old route rather than just a fence? Some thing more substantial. Or put up a sign as well? Maybe put some leaflets for the walkers - to say why it has been moved and ask THEM to also contact the councilor to voice that they are not happy?

I am guessing that the proper route is longer than the alternative - which by the way you describe it is preferred and actually better for everyone?
Click to expand...

I would definitely get the council to put some kind of enforcement notices up on the old route. It is up to them to maintain these new correct routes and if damage is being caused you need to make it clear to walkers that they are causing criminal damage and will be prosecuted. You need to get enough evidence ie witnesses if you catch anyone damaging your property and call the police too, get it recorded. People cannot damage property if they fancy.

I agree that walkers need to be informed WHO to contact ie put a phone number for them to ring and perhaps explain its not your doing. Bloooming public!! Everything is very weighted in the favour of the walkers unfortunately. I would electrify the lot.
 
Maybe the local farmer would like to put a bull with the biggest pair of horns and balls in your field for a while? Their choice then would be run & take the correct route or risk their backsides being married with a raging bull whilst cutting the fence!!
 
I so feel your pain!, last year my gelding had lami and had to be put in a section of electric fence to limit his grazing, poxy kids thought it was cruel and let him out, i put signs up and still they kept doing it, contacted the local farmer and he said there was nothing he could do, as it was a public footpath through the field. Another occasion a lady walking her dogs through the field, moaned that my horses were chasing her dog and that if they hurt them she would smack my horse! :eek: needless to say i went mad at her and told her she hits my horse i'll hit her!!, if it wasn't for the child on her back in this walking contraption strapped to her i think i would have just done it there and then!, people can be so rude, but with a 'public' footpath there was nothing i could do. I moved x


Edited to say: sorry miss read your post lol these sort of things can happen tho with public footpaths. x
 
Last edited:
We have had signs up saying why the path has been closed but they keep ripping them down and sticking up signs of their own saying that "these people can not get away with it". It admits on their notice that the route has been Legally altered. The last damage involved removing the entire fencing onto a main A road! We will be trying to catch them at it.
 
There is not, as already stated, such thing as Trespass UNLESS damage is done. You can get the route officially changed by applying to the Council. may be worth a go.
 
Slave2Magic said:
We have had signs up saying why the path has been closed but they keep ripping them down and sticking up signs of their own saying that "these people can not get away with it". It admits on their notice that the route has been Legally altered. The last damage involved removing the entire fencing onto a main A road! We will be trying to catch them at it.
Click to expand...

Yes you need to catch them. We had the same the walkers just ripped all dog poo notices down saying it was agricultural land and the notices were wrong. Arrogant people. You need to catch them and also put a notice up informing them if they have cause to complain they need to RINGxxxx not take it out on the landowner AND to stop damaging the notices and property ie fence posts. But catch them. A CCTV is good if you can afford to get one installed.Try and work out what time of day they are doing the poster rip down. That is criminal damage to remove the fence and then leave a hazard in the middle of the road potential to cause a accident etc. The police should be involved too early on. You must report this removal of fence. They could kills someone. Perhaps the police can provide a camera?
 
moana said:
There is not, as already stated, such thing as Trespass UNLESS damage is done. You can get the route officially changed by applying to the Council. may be worth a go.
Click to expand...

Actually, trespass to land is a civil wrong actionable "per se" which means that proof of actual damageis not necessary for a successful claim.
 
We have a public footpath up our drive that then crosses my neighbours field, as people do a round walk on his field and onto NT land it is in constant use.

He has had endless problems with people straying far from path, dogs attacking his sheep etc. He has now fenced off the path with electric fencing, which has solved the poblem for him, but now walkers have a very rough path to walk as it is no longer nice short grazed grass.

Your best option is to agree with the council a diversion of the path that is on th edge of the field, get them to put in a stile (my neighbour made them put in a ladder type which animals can not get over or out of) and then run electric fencing so it limits the problems caused to yourself.

It is in everybodies interest to get this resloved without further upset, if you feel the local councillor is going beyond his brief, then report him!
 
Do you have an OS map with the correct path on? Perhaps draw a pic of this on a notice and state the source of the information. I'd also add that damage to fencing will be reported to the police as criminal damage and that CCTV is recording (even if it isn't)
 
I really feel for you OP. however I am also a keen walker and have had lots of experience of blocked footpaths with no alternative route (9 miles into a walk this is very frustrating) but I know this is not the case here - I just can't condemn all walkers!

On the others and I am glad that no public paths go through my horse's field - I worry about gates somehow opening as it is without the worry of walkers leaving them open! (I am always careful to close gates when I am walking and do not divert from official path unless there is a bull in the way!)

I agree with what others have said about contacting the council re signs and self closing gates/stiles.

Really hope you can get it sorted
 
Aren't people unbelieveable! I would be inclined to empty the muckheap (and anyone else's muckheap I could find) in that area, and let them wade through that if they want to cut fences and deviate etc.

How about getting local paper involved? Story about animals getting injured after people cut wire following council enforcing the movement of a footpath to its legal position...
 
Would the landowner prefer the other path to be permanently used instead of the existing path?

If so, I'd suggest look at setting up a community group to gain funding under the Paths for Communities initiative (and stick up a notice for the walkers to invite them to a meeting to discuss this and get their help). Then you can apply for funding to permanently change official route of the path, and make it a bridleway at the same time to take horses off the road too.
 
I was talking to a lady last night from up there in w yorks who is having similar problems with footpath. We had a bridle path problem near our yard that stopped me taking my carriage down it, farmer put chain on gate!! I've cut it off 3 times so far!!!
Have you tried contacting the bridle path and footpath officer at BHS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top