Legal Issues with horse

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SarahRicoh

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Hi all,

Just looking for some advice. I have taken on a horse with a few issues from a private seller. I signed a receipt saying I would pay her £sum by Feb 2013 for the horse. She 'forgot' to bring the passpot and I believed her, she said she'd post them. She hasnt and I no longer want/can have this horse. When she transported her I paid her £sum for petrol and she said 'I cant legally charge you so il add an extra £sum to ponies purchase price' which she did.. All Iv paid for the pony is the £sum for the transport and my friend witnessed her saying that about the transport. To me she isnt mine as I hold no passport and I have paid nothing for her so therefore I cant sell her on, all I can do is return her.
I contacted the women too ask to return her and after a discussion she said she's have her back. I said id pay,found transport and we agreed monday.
She has now contacted me today to basically argue and say she wont take her back and she'll take me to court because she 'sold' her to me but she hasnt sold her to me as no moneys been exchanged for the horse and I dont hold passport.
I could just take the horse back on monday and ignore all this but a) I wouldnt just leave the horse there and B) I think then I'd be in the wrong for leaving something on someone elses property. But then again its her horse?
Sorry for the essay, *mince pies for anyone who reads or with advice :)
 
but you havnt paid and its wrote down that you havnt paid yet plus she is the legall owner ont he passport i would personally would get transport and take the horse back and leave it there, you will only lose out on the cost of transport. once the horse is left there not your problem lol :D We had the same problem a few times with passport issues.
 
Ditto AmyMay. You signed saying he/she would be paid for my Feb 2013...it's not her problem you now can't I'm afraid.

Passport isn't proof of ownership, and even though it's quite right it should stay with the horse, I can understand her not giving the passport away until the horse has been paid for completely.

I see you have two options, both of which involve paying for the horse unless she comes to an agreement otherwise. Whether it being you keeping him/her and paying for him/her, or selling him/her and giving her whichever money amount she wants for him/her.
 
amymay said:
You're in breach of contract, so yes you can be taken to court.
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Dose this mean if shes in breach of the contract she would still have to pay the money even tho she does not want the horse? i would send of for a new passport they will be to send you another one out i think aslong as you have the registerd name of the horse. and then the only other option is to sell if she is not suitable. i re read the last line of the post that she would not leave her there opps lol when i was a child this happend to my family. they made us sign a little bit of paper to say seen, rode and sold. turnout the horse was knackard :( nothing we could do
 
Ditto amymay. You need to pay for it before selling, or come to an arrangement with the owner, whereby you advertise etc & owner turns up for actual sale. Or ask owner to take it back with a payment from you for any costs/inconveniences.
 
Don't think it's a good idea to get another passport as the horse already has one. Having said that the passport should be with you as you are the horse's keeper at the moment.Perhaps phone consumer direct (not sure if they'll be able to help as not horsey folk but could give general advice). Are you a member of BHS as gold members get free legal advice.

Sounds like you need to get back in touch with the 'owner' after you've got advice and try to talk things through.
 
Much of what the seller could do depends on ponies worth. Could she take you to court, yes maybe. Its easy enough to do in small claims. Will she? Doubt it. If she did, what happens, nothing much. Civil matter, and she spends another 100 pounds getting the judgment. I know this OH paid depoist on car that had undeclared accident damage and tried to get this back. Situation sounds very fishy. I'd never leave my horse with a buyer who hadn't paid in full.
It all sounds very strang
 
The value I agreed to pay for pony was pretty low (below £600)... After actually googling it seems that a contracts not legally binding unless written by a lawyer which its not and also there is nothing written down that states that she cant take pony back or I cant give her back therefore I should be able too..
Another point is she charged me for transport which is illegal and now says she hasnt changed passport to her name so its been sent off..
Your meant to change passport over within 30days and she hasnt, but this also mean that if she's adamant pony has been 'sold' to me I need to change it to my name within 30 days. I cant as she has passport therefore ponies not mine and I could get fined/am being illegal.
She doesnt want the pony back as she has loads out on loan and a few have come back, she agreed to take pony back and now wont. Thing is theres nothing on the contract about her taking pony back either so technically she could just take her off me.
Also, nothings been paid so shes basically on trial til feb when I have to pay for her.. therefore I have every right to take her back surely?
 
SarahRicoh said:
The value I agreed to pay for pony was pretty low (below £600)... After actually googling it seems that a contracts not legally binding unless written by a lawyer which its not and also there is nothing written down that states that she cant take pony back or I cant give her back therefore I should be able too..
Another point is she charged me for transport which is illegal and now says she hasnt changed passport to her name so its been sent off..
Your meant to change passport over within 30days and she hasnt, but this also mean that if she's adamant pony has been 'sold' to me I need to change it to my name within 30 days. I cant as she has passport therefore ponies not mine and I could get fined/am being illegal.
She doesnt want the pony back as she has loads out on loan and a few have come back, she agreed to take pony back and now wont. Thing is theres nothing on the contract about her taking pony back either so technically she could just take her off me.
Also, nothings been paid so shes basically on trial til feb when I have to pay for her.. therefore I have every right to take her back surely?
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Sarah this is not correct. A contract is legally binding even if it was verbal. It does not even have to be in writing, never mind witnessed by a lawyer. Your googling has led you right up the garden path.

You ARE contractually obliged to pay for this pony. SHE is contractually obliged to accept your payment for it. She could, if she chose, agree to take it back from you but she cannot make you give it back.

I suspect in law you already own the pony and that it is only a matter of your payment being due in February. The passport issue is irrelevant in the matter of who owns the pony and whether you have to buy it.
 
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In my eyes pony is still owned by her hence why I asked her to take pony back and she agreed. Now she wont, she just keep saying pony has been sold to me but as I have no passport I cant transport pony(would be illegal), cant sell her, cant do anything so I'm stuck with her.
Another point is the pony is not techincally 'sold' til the full sum has been paid, which it hasnt. I really have no idea what to do. She said she'd take her back and was arranged for monday but as she doesnt want her back she's now changed her mind.
 
I think it depends on why you can not have the horse and what the contract/receipt states.
I only say this because I took a horse on and rumours were rife he went lame once in work, sellers were adamant that it was jealousy. We agreed for me to take him on six months lwvb on the basis if he any lameness presented then he would be returned. Needless to say he went lame I had the vet out just invade it was coincidence it turned out he had navicular sellers wouldn't take him back.
If something along them lines then yes I would fight to get horse back
But if you decided you no longer want the horse for no good reason then am afraid I would agree with Amymay you are in breach of contract. Also if you take a car/fridge on a finance plan ( that's how it sounds you have made the agreement for the horse) you can not just expect the shop to take it back.
 
SarahRicoh said:
In my eyes pony is still owned by her hence why I asked her to take pony back and she agreed. Now she wont, she just keep saying pony has been sold to me but as I have no passport I cant transport pony(would be illegal), cant sell her, cant do anything so I'm stuck with her.
Another point is the pony is not techincally 'sold' til the full sum has been paid, which it hasnt. I really have no idea what to do. She said she'd take her back and was arranged for monday but as she doesnt want her back she's now changed her mind.
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Your eyes are blind in this respect.

She agreed to take the pony back as a matter of goodwill. You cannot make her take it back. You are contracted to buy it.

The pony was sold as soon as you contracted to buy it. The fact that you have not yet paid and now want to wriggle out is irrelevant.

The passport is a red herring. The passport does not signify ownership. Get a copy and deduct the amount from what you owe her as she broke the law selling a pony without a passport.
 
SarahRicoh said:
The contract would also mean surely that if I didnt pay by feb she could take pony back right as she wouldnt be mine? so surely thats the same now... She's still hers?
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This is not the case. You have a debt to her, the pony is yours unless you specifically have a receipt stating that possession does not take place until payment is made in full. And even then you are still contracted to buy the pony anyway.

From what you have told us, she can chase you for the debt, she cannot reclaim possession of the pony. The pony belongs to you, you contracted to buy her. Now big up to the fact you made a mistake, pay for her and sell her.
 
SarahRicoh said:
But this is my point.. Its illegal to sell a pony without a passport so she is in the wrong..
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She broke a law which has no relevance to whether you now own the pony.

It was not illegal to sell the pony, as such, and you bought it. The sale is valid, she simply committed a passport offence in selling it without a passport. Stop wriggling. Man up. Pay for the pony, get a copy passport and sell the beast.
 
cptrayes.. theres no need to be rude. The lady said she'd take her back and it was all sorted. Now shes changed her mind its all got confusing and is not fair. I refuse to buy a pony without a passport as its illegal, and i have no passport. I will pay for her and sell her on if that is the law but I cant do that without a passport now can I..
 
petsywetsy said:
But surely as she agreed to take the pony back, she changed the contract and is now obliged to take it back?
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Prove it. Anything in writing like the seller has? As far as we know she just said she would try to take it back, and then decided that she could not.
 
SarahRicoh said:
cptrayes.. theres no need to be rude. The lady said she'd take her back and it was all sorted. Now shes changed her mind its all got confusing and is not fair. I refuse to buy a pony without a passport as its illegal, and i have no passport. I will pay for her and sell her on if that is the law but I cant do that without a passport now can I..
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I am not being rude.

Other people have advised you to get a copy passport. It only costs a few quid and you can legally knock that off the purchase price.

let's be honest SR, the passport is a red herring and if you wanted to keep the pony the absence of a passport would not bother you one bit.

The fact is that you are now trying to wriggle out of a contract because you have changed your mind.

It's not on, and there is no point calling me rude just because you don't like the law.
 
Also, cptrayes where are you getting your information from for me to take you on and believe your right? If your right then brilliant thanks for clearing it up for me, if not it could just be what you think... I'm not wriggling thankyou very much. She sold the pony as having issues and it rears...
 
There are a number of legal questions posed in this post & a variety of answers have been given & a number of views posted however, as with most legal questions, it is much better for you to speak to a solicitor & you will get best advice. They will be able to tell you what your options are & exactly how you stand legally.
 
SarahRicoh said:
Yes you are being rude telling me to stop 'wriggling and man up'. I am doing neither.
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If you loved this pony to bits would you be telling the owner that you are not going to pay for it because it does not have a passport?

That's wriggling, but I agree you are not going to man up.
 
If the rearing is known and stated, I'm guessing that's a moot point and not relevant to who owns it.


If you had the original written statement as 'on trial to purchase if suitable by 2013', then I'm sure you're within your right to return...however, I presumed from how it was worded ['paid for by Feb 2013'] that a 'trial' period wasn't the case?

Happy to be corrected though, as this was going solely by what I read of it! :)
 
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