Legal question .... Am I right in asking for this?

Spyda

Spyda

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Sorry, a non horsey question but I received an un-itemised bill for £695 from my solicitors this morning, stating it's for 'work' carried out on my behalf up to March 2007. (The case is still ongoing and this is the first bill received since it started in June 2006.)

In March 2007 my solicitor died of cancer. I'd been unaware of his illness, and only found out when I received a letter from his office informing me of his death and the name of his replacement. He'd been working on a probate issue for me for the previous 10 months - but my case had not been dealt with efficiently and when he died I was absolutely no further forward than when he'd taken the case on. With hindsight, I see now that his illness must have been affecting his work. Quite understandably too, the poor man. Fortunately, the new person dealing with my case is very efficient and has made good progress since taking over.

My gripe with the 'Interim Bill' received this morning is that it is not itemised - it merely says the £695 is for: [ QUOTE ]
'Our professional fees for legal services provided including attendances [there have been none!], telephone calls and the care and conduct throughout".

[/ QUOTE ]

In light of the fact that during period of this 'Bill' nothing progressed with my case, am I not entitled to a breakdown of how the £695 being charge has been accumulated? I've emailed the solicitors and asked for a detailed invoice; dates, times and costs for the services provided, and am awaiting their response.

Am I entitled to this or do I have to accept the undetailed £695 'Bill'?? Am I being unreasonable? Or can they legally bill me without providing the itemisation of dates and services rendered?? I've all the email correspondence saved since 2006, including the emails I sent whilst solicitor number one was handling my case about how unhappy I was with the progress and his lack of knowledge in the field of my case.

Chocolate fudge cake with whipped cream for those who've managed to get this far. Medals are on their way to you!
 
I would deffo want an itemisation of this, it's not like it's just a tenner! I think you are well within your rights, especially for it being a bill dated only upto 18 months ago.
 
OK- i had an issue with a solicitor who was acting for me several years ago - I received a bill for £400 for letters written by her on my behalf....however, I had not been informed that she had been sending these letters...they were completely ineffectual and resolved nothing, the case never went any further yet she still was writing them and charging me for them, without me knowing!

I disputed her bill, told her I would report her to her governing body ( can't remember the name of this body now, but i looked it up at the time) and paid her for what i thought was a 'fair' estimate of the work i had actually asked her to do. She must have known she was in the wrong because she accepted it.....and never asked for any more. Worth a try..
 
I would think you're quite within you're rights to ask for a detailed statement, it'll be interesting to find out how much they charge for a phone call/email. Do you have a copy of any agreement when they took on the case? if there was one.
 
You are perfectly within your rights to ask for the invoice to be itemised. On the back of the invoice there should be details of how to query the bill, and who to write to in the event of a complaint, but I hope it wouldn't come to that.

I imagine you will get a breakdown fairly quickly (solicitors keep timesheets so they can apportion fees), but in any event I would have a chat with the current solicitor once this is sorted and ask that from now on you get regular (monthly or bi-monthly bills or statements so you know what this is costing you and don't get hit with a large bill again.

Hope this helps!
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No agreement. As the probate issue involved my late Father's estate in America and American probate law plus me here in England and UK law issues it was no doubt complicated for a small town rural solicitor's office and I've the emails from my original solicitor admitting it was difficult for him to proceed with my case as he did not know anything about US probate laws. I was able to do a lot of the leg-work for him and get information he needed by contacting the necessary offices in America, but often I'd call him to see how things were progressing since our last contact only find out that he hadn't done anything at all. He'd promise to do it, but weeks would pass and I'd have to chase him again. It was only after the new person took over the case that things started moving forward.

If I've no agreement, how does that stand me?
 
Well when I went to see a solictor about probate we were given a quotation for how much they charged per hour and what work they did. I think it was £57 per hour - so we did it oursleves, but it was straightforward, if time consuming.

I think you are entirely justified in seeking a breakdown and justification of the bill - in fact I thought that, like my solicitor, they had to tell you first. I think with a bit of arm twisting you may get it reduced.

Although I still seethe about another solicitor, who we met in their own offices (although not his based office) and he charged us 90p on the bill for his car parking! I was furious.
 
[ QUOTE ]
On the back of the invoice there should be details of how to query the bill, and who to write to in the event of a complaint, but I hope it wouldn't come to that

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, yes. You are quite right. I see it. It says if I'm unhappy with their fee I have the right to ask them for a 'Remuneration Certificate' from the Legal Complaints Service. And that I need to do this within 1 month of receiving the bill.

Can I ask for the itemised bill BEFORE I proceed to the Legal Complaints Service process? And would the LCS take into consideration the emails I have on file, plus the lack of progress during the first solicitor's handling of my case? Some of his emails are quite incriminating of his expertise to handle my case.
 
Yes, I would ring them and have a chat, (make sure you say you don't expect to be charged for their time on the phone!
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) and see what they say. If the "new" solicitor knows perfectly well that there was no progress until they took over, they will probably be quite accommodating. However, it doesn't really seem overly expensive to me tbh so it may just be that once they have itemised it and you see what they have charged for, you will sort of come to terms with it.

It sounds like the "old" solicitor should not have taken your case on when you appointed him, if he really didn't have a clue how to deal with it.

I would go for the amicable approach in the first instance - you can follow up with a formal complaint at a later date (within the 30 days) and it sounds like you have a lot of background documentation to support you if you do.
 
I took out a complaint against a solicitor (re over-charging) through the Law Society complaints service and won a good refund.
There is a procedure that you have to follow, and that starts by you dealing first with your solicitors. So first you need to request more info on the charges, and I would be inclined to point out that no progress was made in the case during the time they are charging you for, and your new solicitor is starting again from scratch (if that is the case). Then, if you are still unhappy, there will be a solicitor at the firm who is their nominated contact for complaints. Get the name and write to them making it an official complaint and telling them what you want to happen.
If that doesn't sort things out to your satisfaction, then contact the Law Society and they will advise you, and send you the paperwork to complete to have the complaint taken up by them.
If you haven't already got it, I would request that your new solicitor gives you an estimate of charges for the complete work to be carried out on your behalf. Once you have that, they must not exceed it without first obtaining your approval. This is one reason why my solicitors had to significantly reduce their bill, they had run up fees beyond the initial estimate without first agreeing it with me.
Hope that helps.
 
I would seriously be annoyed at this. The previous solicitor has admitted that he was not competent to deal with this case in terms of the US law - really he should not have accepted your instructions.

Probabte law is incredibly complicated in the US - I assume when you say they are dealing with your issues in the UK they are talking about your inheritance tax position?

I would ask for the time entries relating to the bill - they ought to be able to give this to you quite quickly. Sounds as though you should have been billing them for your time in doing all the leg work!

Dont be afraid to question any of the items as well - it is not uncommon to receive a discount where a matter has been delayed.
 
They should easily provide a time print out which shows every time entry, activity and who did it - I know - I am an IT manager for a law firm.

If you are unhappy go to the Law Society - http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/redressscheme.law

They also should have given you an initial client care letter setting out who was dealing with the work, the charging rate and an indication of costs and billing schedule.
 
It's not actually inheritance tax related. You ready for this story!!!

My Dad gave me the £19k (the 20% deposit) I needed to get a mortgage to buy my present home. At the time I was living in emergency bedsite accommodation with my two small sons. For tax reasons (at his end) he did not want to appear to 'gift' me the money so drew up a Declaration of Trust with my solicitor (the one now deceased) which he could submit to the US tax office at his end. I hadn't a clue what this was at the time, but signed it just to keep everyone happy and get the mortgage process completed. My Father wrote to my solicitor and made clear the money was a gift. Letters which are on file at the solicitors.

Moving on several years, my Father developed cancer and passed away in October 2004. I was with him in America when he passed, having left my four children in the care of my Mother here in England for 3 months so they could stay in school and I could stay with him at the end. When his will was read it transpired he'd left me a cash sum (nominal) and everything else as a job-lot to his 3 siblings. I honestly think he'd forgotten the Declaration of Trust and hadn't realised it's significance in this eventuality. Because of the wording of his will, my Dad's 20% interest in my home here (which is now worth about £40k) defaulted to the siblings. Despite inheriting all of my Dad's estate valued at between US$2-3m, they made it clear that they would not relinquish me of the 'debt'. But, I stress, before we reached this stage, it took almost 20 months for my solicitors here to determine that the American siblings were definitely entitled to the 20% share and that I could not wriggle out of buying them out of what was due against what my Dad had given me back in June 2000.

Since buying the house in June 2000 I've been on an Interest Only Self Cert mortgage and now desperately need to switch to a Repayment mortgage. BUT I can't switch mortgages until the siblings are paid off. BUT I haven't got a spare £40k to buy them out. I suppose I will have to remortgage to raise the money for them, but with mortgages like gold dust at the mo I'm stuck. We're at stale mate. The siblings and me, that is. They won't relinquish their part ownership in my home and I cannot remortgage to buy them out. So every month I am forking out £1000 for an Interest Only mortgage. Effectively throwing it down the drain. Grrrr.... It's a nightmare situation.
 
I wasn't going to get involved in this, but it is the often seen case of a solicitor probably not realising at all that a client is unhappy as they have no idea what the client wants as the client hasn't spoken to the solicitor, who is the one who can solve the problem! The first the solictor hears is when they get a "complaint", which isn't really a complaint at all, but a request for further information, but by then the client has asked the world and his wife what to do and got a hundred different answers and is totally wound up.

Pick up the phone, explain your concerns to your present solicitor who you seem to think is ok and is making good prgress with your case and it can usually be resolved quite easily nine times out of ten. You are not at the moment complaining about the size of the bill, you just want some more information. Obviously you are always going to get some solicitors who aren't , shall we say, client friendly and even some downright rogues, but you get that in all walks of life. No-one can deal with problems and "complaints" that they're not even aware of!

Just a small point -"attendances" do not necessarily mean a face to face meeting with the client. They can be meetings or longer telephone calls with the client and/or others involved in a case. But this probably highlights why you might want more detail.

I'll get down off the soapbox now.
 
No offence taken. As not relevant in my case, as both old and new solicitors know exactly my position, what I need of them and, in the case of solicitor number one - his whole office knew of my increasing concerns at the lack of progress in my case. I know how to communicate and move on to complaining in writing when necessary.

The only form of comms used by my solicitors has been email. That includes the few comms to America. Everything has been done via email - no appointments or telephone calls. When I've phoned and left a message for a call back, I always get an email instead. Aggravating as this has been at times, at least I've a complete record of all comms between us I suppose.
 
There is increasing use of e-mail in the legal world, often to save on the astronomical cost of postage and telephone bills these days. Don't care for it myself, but a lot of clients, especially commercial ones, like it. I would still try speaking with or e-mailing your solicitor with regard to your concerns. It is common for interim bills, as they are known, i.e. ones sent during the course of a life of a case rather than a final bill, to just set out very brief details. If you're not happy with your solicitor, or think they're not up to the job, then change, but amicably if you can before it all gets too heated. Doesn't really matter these days if they're not local. If you do change, there will almost certainly be a cost related to the new solicitor having to get to grips with your case before progressing it, but if they are specialists, then these should be balanced against them doing the work more efficiently. Your case does sound complex, I must say, but then I don't do that sort of work.

Given that this is a horse related forum, let's change the subject - how many horses you got!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Given that this is a horse related forum, let's change the subject - how many horses you got!

[/ QUOTE ]

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Expect I'll end up with none at all if I can't sort this mess out. Flaming relatives
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Thanks for your suggestions though. And you're quite right about this being a horse orientated forum. I'll shut up now and frazzle quietly in the privacy of my own home.
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