legalities in sign-writing your horsebox..anyone know the facts???

S

show_jumper

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hi there.
i was just about to go and get my yard name and website splashed across my lorry- (to make it look snazzy and get a bit of interest) when i heard that having advertising on your lorry makes you a business.. and then you need an opperators liscence etc etc (well by etc etc i really means, thats all the vague facts i know!)
does anyone know anything about this?????

thanks
 
I have read something about this and I think if you applied the regulations in the strictest sense it could be true. But I would be very surprised if it was enforced.

I would contact VOSA
 
Sounds as if you are running a yard, and therefore technically your lorry is a capital asset which is used for hire a reward, this already puts you in the realms of an operators license, but as dieseldog said it depends on how far you apply the letter of the law??? Sorry to add to the confusion!
 
Son has his wagon for his bikes 'signed' with a list of sponsors etc, he also has 'not for hire or reward' written on the cab;(you can just see the start of it at the bottom of the cab) in fact all the wagons of the other bikers do too. When I queried it, the answer was partly for insurance purposes and to declare they weren't a business, the wagon was just a part of their hobby.
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If you are a business and you use it as part of your business then it looks like you'll need an operator's licence but if you only use it for yourself as publicity for your business then if you put the 'not for hire or reward' slogan, surely that would be all you'll need to do? Think it will be a call to Swansea for you!
 
it doesn't matter what you put in regard to a not for hire and reward on the side of the vehicle

if you put ANY more that "caution horses" on it and you are running a yard then you need transport operators license as you are receiving money in return for your riding and that is personal gain - so sponsors logos also puts you into the TOL.

If you merely use your lorry for your own horses and they are registered to you and not a holding company and you merely have caution horses then you don't need TOL
 
Vosa are impounding lorries that have signwriting on unless you have an op licence!

Orange Op licence means you can carry your own horses on only

Blue Op Licence means you can do National transport for Hire and Reward

Green Licence mean you can do international transport for hire and reward

The of of course DEFRA will want to issue a State Veterinary Transporter Number, you will have to have your lorry inspected and depending upon whether you have a T1 licence (under 8 hours Local only) or a T2 Licence (over 8 hours and no more than 12) or a T2 international Licence.

You will then need to get all your staff qualified before 8th Jan 2008 with the new Certificate in Transport (under 8 hours) or Advanced Certificate in Equine Transport (over 8 hours).

Its not a case of putting 'not for hire and reward' it does not matter! The fact you are advertising a business means you need an op licence! VOSA are visiting many many events and are stopping an ever increasing amount of lorries now on the road!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Vosa are impounding lorries that have signwriting on unless you have an op licence!

Orange Op licence means you can carry your own horses on only

Blue Op Licence means you can do National transport for Hire and Reward

Green Licence mean you can do international transport for hire and reward

The of of course DEFRA will want to issue a State Veterinary Transporter Number, you will have to have your lorry inspected and depending upon whether you have a T1 licence (under 8 hours Local only) or a T2 Licence (over 8 hours and no more than 12) or a T2 international Licence.

You will then need to get all your staff qualified before 8th Jan 2008 with the new Certificate in Transport (under 8 hours) or Advanced Certificate in Equine Transport (over 8 hours).

Its not a case of putting 'not for hire and reward' it does not matter! The fact you are advertising a business means you need an op licence! VOSA are visiting many many events and are stopping an ever increasing amount of lorries now on the road!

[/ QUOTE ]

once again, foraday you are correct.

VOSA are getting very vigilant with lorries....
 
Help! I'm getting confused here. Can you confirm my position please. My lorry is used to transport my and my sons horses to competitions. Do I need a licence then??
 
Also, we have a magnetic sign that we put on the back of our lorry advertising the company that my friend owns where we keep our horses. They are not sponsors of any kind, we do't even pay them to keep our horses there so do I have to take that off?
 
Sorry another question, what about horses that are loaned to us to compete, owners pay towards keep and entry fees but we are not a business? Is that classed as transporting other peoples horses?
 
Shel I would suspect it does apply to you as you are providing a service for reward. (You are providing lodging and excercise for payment)

This has been brewing for ages and Im surprised its only just found the forum. Anything with a business name or telephone number on it, whatever sort of vehicle, whether the driver/owner has a business or not IS classed as commercial.

I would also double check with your insurance companies too as this may affect the way you are insured.
 
I had heard about this a while ago, but didn't think it applied to us.

Sods law! So if they didn't pay anything we wouldn't be classed as a business then?

How would they prove it? Sorry to ask soooo many questions, but you can you can bet I'll get pulled!!
 
Shel - never mind lorries - what about Inland Revenue (Tax on your income) and Business Rates. You should be paying both of those as well if the horses are stabled at your yard and they owner is paying anything towards their keep. Also you want insurance. There have been a few cases recently where an accident has occured which the yard owner is complelty blameless , but they have been held liable as they own the land where the horses are kept.
 
Thanks for the advice. But we are not a business, well, I didn't think we were classed as one, we all have jobs and the horses are our hobby. We have a horse on loan from non-riding owners who bred the horse and put it with us to compete. We don't run a yard, all the other horses are owned by us. The loan agreement stated that they would contribute to a percentage of entry fees and shoeing costs. We keep them on a privately owned farm with a friend. They provide the horse insurance and we are covered to ride on our own personal insurance.

I've just read the article in H&H and it says the law doesn't effect riders and exhibitors who compete for minor prize money or hobby breeders - we fall into that category.

Life is never simple!
 
as an interesting follow on point, my lorry has in nice small 10+ year old writing on the ramp the horsebox convertors name and number (which may or may not be valid!!). Now does that count as advertising (you can only read if very close
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) if so I better get my paint pot out its already a disgusting colour (dodgey yellow and dodgier brown!) so an extra colour won't make much difference if needs must
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