leukocytoclastic vasculitis - not one but two!

Nudibranch

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I have two white legged geldings; one 4 socks and the other piebald with 4 white legs.
And now I have two horses with leukocytoclastic vasculitis. That's beyond unlucky imo. Currently in the middle of steroid and antibiotic treatment. We think the cause was turnout in foggage which had some perennial ryegrass. Generally old pasture which is never fertilised, but was oversown many years ago with the prg.
Only I could have two horses who are effectively allergic to grass! Long term management is going to be trial and error, so who knows what the future holds but hopefully if we just avoid that field during the seed phase we might be ok. Through a long process of elimination we think that is the cause but who knows...and there's every chance they are now so sensitised it'll take far, far more than that to keep it at bay.
What a year this is turning out to be. Maybe 2016 will be better!
 

Jim bob

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Oh god! Sounds like my boy I hate LV!! long story short my boy was fine on the .. 18th of may.. 5 days later the scabs came and my god where they painful for him. Having been on antibiotics and then oral steroids from the 25/05 he only came off them on the 7th of this month just got 6 small scabs on his hind legs left but I still very painful. I was able to pick them off and thought that would be it. The little b*****s have returned though! Such a nightmare the disease is.
 

Meowy Catkin

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Yes, that's exactly what i was told the first time my boy had it. He was sedated and his legs were scrubbed bare of scabs by the vet (I couldn't do it safely as it was so sore) and the LV just spread and spread so quickly after it was done. He didn't have one square inch of his white legs that wasn't sore in the end. He had a bit this year, just above his heel bulbs and I just left it completely alone, the scabs started to fall off by themselves within weeks, there was healthy skin underneath and no spreading.
 

ycbm

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If I had two horses with a relatively uncommon skin condition in the same environment I might wonder if something else was going on. Copper and zinc are supposed to be important to skin health and excess iron will disturb copper uptake. Have you tested either your horses or your grazing for mineral imbalances? I'd be looking for low copper in the horse or high iron/manganese in the grazing. Or possibly just put them on one of the no-iron high copper supplements that the barefooters use. But maybe you have already done that?
 

Jim bob

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When they first appeared they became worse even when I wasn't picking them off and they don't appear to be shifting or even looking like there going to fall off.
 

mightymammoth

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I put aqueous cream on my horses scabs massaged in once a day and they have come off after a week. You can get a tub of cream from the pound shop.
 

Meowy Catkin

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I was too slow to edit. I wanted to add that there is a photosensitive element to LV. So plants like buttercups, alfalfa and rye grass should be avoided. Plus think about UV protection for next summer. Sun cream, UV leg wraps, stabling on really bright days, turning out at night etc...

Now autumn is here, the LV should resolve.
 

Nudibranch

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ycbm, our grazing is deficient in magnesium and slightly in copper so they have minerals to balance. However, one horse has been in these fields for 4 years without an issue. The only thing that changed was that they went in a field which had gone to seed...now that may or may not be the cause. We have been over every possibility and scenario and have two vets scratching their heads as well. We may never know. My personal opinion is that, given it came on both horses at exactly the same time, they caught heel mites or some other parasite or fly attack, which when combined with the pasture, the sun and the 7 white legs, brought on what would otherwise be an unusual reaction. Each of these things in isolation may not have had the same impact.
 
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ycbm

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ycbm, our grazing is deficient in magnesium and slightly in copper so they have minerals to balance. However, one horse has been in these fields for 4 years without an issue. The only thing that changed was that they went in a field which had gone to seed...now that may or may not be the cause. We have been over every possibility and scenario and have two vets scratching their heads as well. We may never know. My personal opinion is that, given it came on both horses at exactly the same time, they caught heel mites or some other parasite or fly attack, which when combined with the pasture, the sun and the 7 white legs, brought on what would otherwise be an unusual reaction. Each of these things in isolation may not have had the same impact.

Is the iron level ok? Most UK grazing is high in iron and that takes priority over copper and the horse can be copper deficient even if they are apparently getting plenty. You may know this already, forgive me if you do. I have to overdose copper to get the blood levels right.

It's a horrible problem to have, and very strange that it happened in two horses at the same time when one has been grazing there a long time. I hope you crack it.
 

Nudibranch

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Another wierd thing is that according to a local vet OH was talking to today, there's been a lot of cases of photosensitivity in cattle with white markings up here recently. Nobody knows why. Its most bizarre.
 

ycbm

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Another wierd thing is that according to a local vet OH was talking to today, there's been a lot of cases of photosensitivity in cattle with white markings up here recently. Nobody knows why. Its most bizarre.

My guess would be changes in the weather conditions that have increased the plants that are known to cause photosensitivity, like those listed by Faracat, plus wort, particularly, as I recall, St John's wort.

Either that, or plants that affect the liver. Has your very checked liver function in your two?
 

ycbm

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I have done a little bit of research. In 1998, Oxfordshire was recorded as the northernmost area that St John's wort was growing in Britain. The latest information is that it is fairly common throughout Britain. I suspect your grazing may well have increased levels of photosensitising plants, possibly caused by global warming.

I once owned a white faced horse who got mild sunburn on his nose. I moved him three miles to a farm that had lots of Wort and he burned so badly that I was forced to leave him in.
 

Prince33Sp4rkle

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Dealt with this on and off the entire time i had Pea :(

cover the white socks all year round for turnout with waterproof suncream and if thats not enough in summer use the fly rug material turnout chaps (cashel ones are the toughest IME).

if you dont cover it up, you wont clear it up IME.
 

AdorableAlice

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Update on my lad.

Keeping his legs covered is helping, cashel boots are doing a good job and wash/dry easily. The crusting is finally coming away and healthy pink skin appearing.

The horse is on 3 bute over a 24 hour period and has been for 5 days now. Steroids are risky given his age (22) and on 1 prescend a day for cushings. He did have steroids and anti b's in the summer when he was at his worst.

I have tried every potion known to man and the only thing that has helped is Johnson baby lotion, the pink stuff, that has softened the crustiness and allowed me to very gently remove the loosened crud. Flamizine is then put on the pink skin. I just hope the improvement continues because I will be devastated if something like this caused the the end of my lads life.
 

paddy555

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Update on my lad.

Keeping his legs covered is helping, cashel boots are doing a good job and wash/dry easily. The crusting is finally coming away and healthy pink skin appearing.

The horse is on 3 bute over a 24 hour period and has been for 5 days now. Steroids are risky given his age (22) and on 1 prescend a day for cushings. He did have steroids and anti b's in the summer when he was at his worst.

I have tried every potion known to man and the only thing that has helped is Johnson baby lotion, the pink stuff, that has softened the crustiness and allowed me to very gently remove the loosened crud. Flamizine is then put on the pink skin. I just hope the improvement continues because I will be devastated if something like this caused the the end of my lads life.

I am considering the cashel boots. Do they slip down or stay in place? Do they work well in the field? Are there left and right ones in a pair or can you use them both on the same side? (I only have one bad white leg, the rest are black)

Mine has had this recently. Steroids are more or less out. He has had laminitis and is old. To try and soften the crustiness and to get it to heal I tried manuka honey (24+) It was not cheap but since Monday when I started applying it then he is far less touchy, quite happy to have it rubbed in and I think the swelling is going down slightly. I washed it today in saline solution and it appears much cleaner. No idea if the manuka will resolve it but it seemed worth a try to start with.

Mine appears to have been triggered by clover. I opened up a small section of grass which seems to have had excessive clover growth this year and within days the problem appeared.
 

AdorableAlice

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I am considering the cashel boots. Do they slip down or stay in place? Do they work well in the field? Are there left and right ones in a pair or can you use them both on the same side? (I only have one bad white leg, the rest are black)

Mine has had this recently. Steroids are more or less out. He has had laminitis and is old. To try and soften the crustiness and to get it to heal I tried manuka honey (24+) It was not cheap but since Monday when I started applying it then he is far less touchy, quite happy to have it rubbed in and I think the swelling is going down slightly. I washed it today in saline solution and it appears much cleaner. No idea if the manuka will resolve it but it seemed worth a try to start with.

Mine appears to have been triggered by clover. I opened up a small section of grass which seems to have had excessive clover growth this year and within days the problem appeared.

The cashel boots are well worth the cost, they are not that bad, £26 ish a pair I think. They are well made and shaped to fit, they do not slip down and are shaped for left and right. I would not put a left on a right in case it rubbed, they are shaped to fit. Fine in the field, that is what they are meant for really, UV protection for the damaged limb. When my lad was at his worst I put linen tea towels under the cashel boots.

The boots were well tested today, (he wears 3), he had a right hooley and they stayed put perfectly well. The manuka honey is interesting. Good luck with you lad.
 

paddy555

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The cashel boots are well worth the cost, they are not that bad, £26 ish a pair I think. They are well made and shaped to fit, they do not slip down and are shaped for left and right. I would not put a left on a right in case it rubbed, they are shaped to fit. Fine in the field, that is what they are meant for really, UV protection for the damaged limb. When my lad was at his worst I put linen tea towels under the cashel boots.

The boots were well tested today, (he wears 3), he had a right hooley and they stayed put perfectly well. The manuka honey is interesting. Good luck with you lad.

thanks for the info AA, will give them a try. Good luck with yours as well. So worrying isn't it.
 

paddy555

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The manuka honey is interesting.

one week on manuka was very interesting and more effective than I have found flamizine in the past. The manuka took the inflamation and soreness away. A second week now with just sudocrem. The cracks have healed and I am rubbing the sudocrem in really hard and he doesn't notice it. This is the best combination I have found yet.
 

elaineredfern

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Hi all I am in despair about this wretched disease.We are entering 3rd/4th month now following a bout of Lymes disease.I have read on old thread about theses Ag equimed boots so am going to try those.Archie is stuck in and legs are so filled .Alll ideas welcome.He is on steroids and has had biopsies ,skin clipped off by vet twice but we make alittle progress and then just flares up again.Has anyone tried homeopathy?
 

mightymammoth

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have you got some photos?where does he have it? My horse has this too but I manage him living out. What have you tried so far?

I have found that applying aqueous cream to soften and remove the scabs then using cortavance spray on the sores. He started off with weeping wet sores and needed antibiotics, unfortunately I spent months treating "mud fever" which didn't help!

It's a wretched condition and I'm not sure it every goes but keep going x
 

elaineredfern

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Hi He has it on both hind legs.Hard to know what I haven't tried over the past few years off and on .this time it followed on from massive antibiotics after Lymes disease .He is on steroids,I use udder cream with Synulox (antibiotic type cream from vet.For several weeks I was not supposed to do anything.He is kept in so legs fill anyway.Vet clipped off hair and scabs which helped initially but now the second time not sure clipping has helped ,it has not just aggravated it again.I am trying to give him some turnout so long as he can be dry and clean as he is not a great eater .Sorry cant seem to post photos.Thanks
 

Jim bob

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While my horse was at the vets the specialist saw his legs ( just hind legs) I asked whether it would be worth just leaving them to drop off and he said to basically get the scabs off. I said I didn't want that to make his legs flare up. I was given steroid cream and the nurse started to remove some of the scabs though my horse had to be twitched for it. The nurse said just to hibiscrub them, rinse them and dry them. However my boy still finds it really painful! I often wonder if I will get kicked. I would leave them even though I don't like them but the specialist knows more then me.. I am thinking if they really need to come off then to either sedate him. He would hardly let the nurse clip around the area. I am going to see how it goes. The scabs are very close to the skin on most of them has anyone tried using the clingfilm trick? That people used to soften mud fever scabs??
 

mightymammoth

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i rub in aqueous cream (you can get a tub from the pound shop) then leave on a thick layer, the next day i rub off with a towel then do the same again. After a few days they're gone. I guess it would depend on the scabs though, i've only done it on dry scabs.
 

Jim bob

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They have been far too painful for my horse at the moment. I would be able to do that sadly. At least not right now . :( it's so so frustrating!
 

mightymammoth

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Yes, my horse had the wet sores last year. It's a dreadful condition and more stressfull in the wet and mud. At his worst last year I was using the hibi scrub but that made it worse, I had to give up in the end as it was getting dangerous
 

elaineredfern

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I definitely would not use Hibiscrub as that made my horse's legs much worse and oozed. I use udder cream gently to clean and the cling film if you want to get the scabs off.Thick udder cream or similar slapped on then cling film ,bandage or wrap overnight and then they do just slide off.I am confused though as my vet and hep from Liphook do not want me to remove scabs but have now clipped off legs again to get them off.I am allowed to use emolient to try to stop them coming back but we shall see. On an old thread someone recommended the Equi-med Ag boots so they should arrive today and as they are non invasive I shall try them.He will not be happy about having anything on the legs though but these are quite short fetlock boots.
 
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