Leyland Daff 45 130 starting problem

Springs

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Hi we have a very old Daff (1996) that’s decided it didn’t want to start. We have replaced the seals in the separator, and suction side connectors on the file line at that end, replaced the fuel pump (lift pump) and fuel filter and we seem to have a good flow of fuel to the injector pump. We also have voltage to the cut off solenoid which is also new ish.

It seems like it’s just trying to start but can’t quite make it so we’re suspecting a tiny air leak.

Any pointers or ideas would be great.

Thanks
 

cundlegreen

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Hi we have a very old Daff (1996) that’s decided it didn’t want to start. We have replaced the seals in the separator, and suction side connectors on the file line at that end, replaced the fuel pump (lift pump) and fuel filter and we seem to have a good flow of fuel to the injector pump. We also have voltage to the cut off solenoid which is also new ish.

It seems like it’s just trying to start but can’t quite make it so we’re suspecting a tiny air leak.

Any pointers or ideas would be great.

Thanks
I had a similar problem with my 1994 daf which is always a good starter. You have two fuel lines on the nearside of the lorry running alongside the chassis. There was a connector there that was leaking, and this caused an air buildup over time. That would be worth checking, especially if yours is also a good starter. If you have diesel up to all six injectors, then you have an electrical problem, probably in the connection to the starter solenoid or do you mean this one when you say cut off solenoid?
 

popsdosh

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That is the first obvious check are you getting diesel pressure up to the injectors crack the nuts usually 17mm spanner and check. If not suspect fuel cut off solenoid,see if you can feel it open when the ignition is in the last position before start you may here a click or you will just feel the jolt with your fingers. It may be cold and the glow plugs not working although normally the cummins is reliable. If all else fails a squirt of easy start will do no harm (whatever old wives tales you have heard) nearly every truck that operates in cold climates have to start with ether which is prety much the same .
 

Springs

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I had a similar problem with my 1994 daf which is always a good starter. You have two fuel lines on the nearside of the lorry running alongside the chassis. There was a connector there that was leaking, and this caused an air buildup over time. That would be worth checking, especially if yours is also a good starter. If you have diesel up to all six injectors, then you have an electrical problem, probably in the connection to the starter solenoid or do you mean this one when you say cut off solenoid?
Thanks I’ll take a look at those connectors. The engine turns over fine so it’s not the solenoid on the starter motor.
 

Springs

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That is the first obvious check are you getting diesel pressure up to the injectors crack the nuts usually 17mm spanner and check. If not suspect fuel cut off solenoid,see if you can feel it open when the ignition is in the last position before start you may here a click or you will just feel the jolt with your fingers. It may be cold and the glow plugs not working although normally the cummins is reliable. If all else fails a squirt of easy start will do no harm (whatever old wives tales you have heard) nearly every truck that operates in cold climates have to start with ether which is prety much the same .
Thanks, I did check the voltage to the cut off solenoid and that was ok, I even ran an independent seupply and could hear it clicking in and out when applying power. The symptoms are pointing to a fuel supply / air leak but I’ll pull the solenoid out and take a look just in case it’s the sealed around this. Thanks
 

popsdosh

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Thanks, I did check the voltage to the cut off solenoid and that was ok, I even ran an independent seupply and could hear it clicking in and out when applying power. The symptoms are pointing to a fuel supply / air leak but I’ll pull the solenoid out and take a look just in case it’s the sealed around this. Thanks
Have you tried cracking the injector nuts ? it is quite common to have to when air has got into the system they will soon tell you if there isas air in the pipe compresses and wont open the injector. Otherwise glowplugs if its cold! Are you getting any exhaust smoke turning over?
 
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Springs

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Have you tried cracking the injector nuts ? it is quite common to have to when air has got into the system they will soon tell you if there isas air in the pipe compresses and wont open the injector. Otherwise glowplugs if its cold! Are you getting any exhaust smoke turning over?
Thanks, I have got around to trying the injectors and they appear to be ok without actually putting a pressure guage on them its hard to tell if its the exact correct pressure. I have now also tried the easy start and the engine will briefly start but will not run and just cuts out.

I may pull the cut off solenoid out and check any seals in that area and replace the connection on the fuel line that I haven't done yet and there appears to be no leaks on the fuel lines so it is looking increasingly terminal.
 

turnbuckle

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Don't say terminal.

Wax sounds posible.

Was it a sudden problem or did it build up.

Still plenty of those left in scrappys if it is knacked but the rest of the lorry is good. You could upgrade to 150!

Also worth trying brake cleaner spray instead of easy start
 

popsdosh

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Thanks, I have got around to trying the injectors and they appear to be ok without actually putting a pressure guage on them its hard to tell if its the exact correct pressure. I have now also tried the easy start and the engine will briefly start but will not run and just cuts out.

I may pull the cut off solenoid out and check any seals in that area and replace the connection on the fuel line that I haven't done yet and there appears to be no leaks on the fuel lines so it is looking increasingly terminal.
So have you got fuel under pressure up to the injectors ,if you have it is not the cut out solenoid. crack each line in turn as the engines turning over and do it up as you are sure all the air is out there should be a pulsating squirt of diesel from each one. If it starts on easy start and then stops it can only be a fuel fault. DONT put brake cleaner in the air intake its the quickest way to screw an engine as its corrosive. what you can do to prime up the diesel is to start on easystart and keep it spraying in for a while you will notice the engine pick up when its running on diesel again.
 
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GTRJazz

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There is a filter just before the engine fuel pump that fixed a start issue on the same truck as yours at our yard
You can fit a bit of fuel pump straight onto the pump inlet and run the lorry from a container with fuel in it only need 1L to start then it rules out the tank filters and lines
 

Springs

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Thanks for the replies, I'll try and have a play again on Sunday (have one of the boys out show jumping at Aintree on Sat). Ill let you know how its goes.

I only need to keep it running for a couple of months while I get the other box converted. This one is a 1996 with a 1979 body on it that came off an old Bedford TK. The truck along with the body are showing there age.
 

Mike007

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if you have a good flow of fuel to the injector pump ( it sprays out of the lower bleed nut on the pump if you crack it open a fraction and turn the engine over)and the solenoid on the pump is good (if you are not sure , remove the needle from the solenoid)and you get fuel out from a cracked open injector pipe ,it should start with easy start. If it still doesnt start ,suspect a stuck injector. If an injector seizes ,every time that cylinder compresses ,it will blow back into the injector pump . This prevents any of the cylinders from firing. You need to work methodically through the system .Randomly disturbing things will merely put additional faults in .
 

popsdosh

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if you have a good flow of fuel to the injector pump ( it sprays out of the lower bleed nut on the pump if you crack it open a fraction and turn the engine over)and the solenoid on the pump is good (if you are not sure , remove the needle from the solenoid)and you get fuel out from a cracked open injector pipe ,it should start with easy start. If it still doesnt start ,suspect a stuck injector. If an injector seizes ,every time that cylinder compresses ,it will blow back into the injector pump . This prevents any of the cylinders from firing. You need to work methodically through the system .Randomly disturbing things will merely put additional faults in .
Totally agree it takes about ten minutes to diagnose on that sort of set up if you know what your doing ! just randomly changing this that and the other in no logical sequence can really make the problem worse . Start from lift pump and work up to the injectors. However if you dont know how things should be you are most likely missing the cause.
 

Springs

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There is a filter just before the engine fuel pump that fixed a start issue on the same truck as yours at our yard
You can fit a bit of fuel pump straight onto the pump inlet and run the lorry from a container with fuel in it only need 1L to start then it rules out the tank filters and lines
Hi I did this over the weekend and it goes to start but will not run as before so the problem is on the injector pump engine side.

Thanks for the idea though.
 

Springs

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if you have a good flow of fuel to the injector pump ( it sprays out of the lower bleed nut on the pump if you crack it open a fraction and turn the engine over)and the solenoid on the pump is good (if you are not sure , remove the needle from the solenoid)and you get fuel out from a cracked open injector pipe ,it should start with easy start. If it still doesnt start ,suspect a stuck injector. If an injector seizes ,every time that cylinder compresses ,it will blow back into the injector pump . This prevents any of the cylinders from firing. You need to work methodically through the system .Randomly disturbing things will merely put additional faults in .
Thanks for this I will take a look, however the problem I have is the cab is fixed on this one so the injectors are not very easy to get to but I could look at taking the injector pipes off on the pump and see if any come under pressure with the engine being turned over?
 

GTRJazz

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Could take a few tries especially if the battery starts to go flat worth a bleed at the pump, the lorry at our yard had a non tilting cab so a pain to do anything mechanical
 

Springs

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Thanks for all of the replies.

It as taken some time as I had to remove the living around the back of the engine with the cut out in front and the rocker covers to get access to the injectors, Not that much fun as I always seems to be working on it when it was either snowing, raining or -5.

The injectors were semi seized into the block so they only came out with a tin of WD40, a long crowbar and a big lump hammer. I had them all tested which cost £8 each and they were all ok with the pressure being a little low which should help starting. I put them all back in and it then started fine, so I can only assume the force and shock I had to give them actually unseized the one that was playing up. Time will tell, but its now back on the road and we will probably sell it as the GRP side panels need replacing which is easy done, but I don't have time to do.

Thanks for all of the help and our new box will have a tilting cab as the fixed one is a git to work on....
 

cundlegreen

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Thanks for all of the replies.

It as taken some time as I had to remove the living around the back of the engine with the cut out in front and the rocker covers to get access to the injectors, Not that much fun as I always seems to be working on it when it was either snowing, raining or -5.

The injectors were semi seized into the block so they only came out with a tin of WD40, a long crowbar and a big lump hammer. I had them all tested which cost £8 each and they were all ok with the pressure being a little low which should help starting. I put them all back in and it then started fine, so I can only assume the force and shock I had to give them actually unseized the one that was playing up. Time will tell, but its now back on the road and we will probably sell it as the GRP side panels need replacing which is easy done, but I don't have time to do.

Thanks for all of the help and our new box will have a tilting cab as the fixed one is a git to work on....
You've found out the hard way about tilting cabs! The only reason my fitter will work on my horsebox is because I built it to be able to tilt the cab....
 
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