Liability insurance for land please read

[FOD]

Hi Everyone,

My wife posted asking “Fields with footpaths - do you have liability insurance?”

I thought I would put up a post to let you know what I found out for all of your information and before the cry’s of unfair booo etc I know and agree.

So the answer really is YES and YES even if you don’t have any footpaths.
The reason is to protect yourself from a claim legitimate or not as all claims need to either be defended or paid.

The crux is the claimant has to prove negligence on your part. Even if someone trespasses they can attempt to sue you and it will need to be defended against.

Footpaths even though deemed a public highway, councils and highways will not cover it under there liability as they do all other pubic highways. If you have a footpath you also need insurance because of styles as they are deemed your responsibility no matter who installed them they are deemed as yours and for your benefit only, as they are there to stop livestock or horses from straying not to allow walkers into your field.

On a side note most councils will only offer 25% toward the upkeep/maintenance or replacement of the style and if you don’t keep it in good repair they can after issuing a warning in writing and if the repair’s not done replace the style and charge you for it in full.

One notice of warning here, if you are looking to replace a style, the council, rights of way or highways will try to get you to put in a disabled friendly style but be aware this can open you up to even more liability to those using the path across your land as you can then be construed as providing a ‘service’ and will have to go to greater lengths to maintain a suitable pathway for all possible users and have suitable liability cover to protect against a claim.

So that about covers the, if there allowed on your land or not scenario.

Another example why you need it is in the case of renting grazing etc, say you own a field and keep your horses on it but the field has space for more than yours so you decide to rent some of the land for grazing.

Now you very responsibly insist that those who rent the land have liability insurance for there horse to cover anything the horses do, are you now free and clear? NO as with all insurance companies no matter what they cover they will attempt to shift the blame and so not have to pay out themselves, so for example say the horse that are not yours escape and cause damage to property or people etc, the horse owners insurance company will attempt to shift the blame to you the land owner and thus costs and expenses, hence you suddenly have a claim to defend when you thought you were covered.

Well that’s most of it. If anyone has any questions pop them on and if I have the answer I will let you know.

It is well worth shopping around for the insurance, the differences between company’s was staggering and take the time to read the small print.
Many thanks and hope you find the info helpful

 

[Suechoccy]

Add to that:

If your field adjoins your residential property, you can usually get your household insurer to cover your for liability in your field as part of your household contents liability cover.

If your field does not adjoin your residential property, then it will need its own separate policy. NFU will cover your land for public liability by way of a contents policy for the land, set for the minimum contents value (£30k) which also includes public liability. This will cost you about £120 per year.

I think the BHS's livery yard liability insurance policy can also be used for the same purpose as it includes public liability.

Well worth having such a policy for peace of mind, whether or not you have any permissive or public rights of way over your land, or whether or not you have any arrangements for other people to be on your land (eg rabbit shooters).

 

[joeanne]

The law is an ass.......I insure my animals as 3rd party is a must, but insure against someone tresspassing and then injuring themselves?

 

[FOD]

As I said I agree boooooo no fare, why should we have to have this cover but thats the world were in and its all about risk what you are happy to risk or not.

We looked at the NFU but did not find there home insurance competitive at all in either price or value for money and found that even with a separate policy for home insurance and liability insurance came out cheaper than the NFU.

We went with KBIS for the field insurance FYI

 

[Spudlet]

You can also help yourself by making sure, as much as possible, that your land is reasonably safe - so for example, if you had a drain access hatch in your field, make sure the cover is in good repair so a person would not fall through if they trod on it. If you had a shed with hazardous materials in it like chemicals of some kind, stick a sign up even if no one but you should be going in - because then, if someone does trespass and gets hurt, they can't claim not to have known they were taking a risk by doing so.

 

[Kat]

Third party liability insurance is indeed vital for any land you own whatever its use. You may say this is unfair but think about it the other way, you are walking down a pavement and are seriously injured by a tree falling from the adjoining property (the tree has been in dangerous condition for sometime and the landowner hasn't dealt with it). You would want to be compensated for your injuries and loss of earnings as a result of the accident. If the landowner did not have liability insurance you would have to sue them personally for your losses and if you were seriously injured your losses may exceed their assets meaning that they cannot pay.

How fair would it be if you were injured, seriously, and lost your ability to work as a result then could not get compensation?

 

[Spudlet]

Should have added on my last post - stick a sign up and secure it properly so the casual eejit can't just wander in unawares (or children who can't read etc). I know it might seem ridiculous to some, but there we go, better the cost of a sign and a decent lock than being sued IMO.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

If your field does not adjoin your residential property, then it will need its own separate policy. NFU will cover your land for public liability by way of a contents policy for the land, set for the minimum contents value (£30k) which also includes public liability. This will cost you about £120 per year.

to add, the NFU will not provide quote or cover for land - UNLESS you have property insured with them already. They have confirmed this via phone and also email.

So, I got quote from them for my house renewal last December - their quote came back at just over £800 - far higher than my current insurers renewal of £302, then there was the land to add on.......... (on shopping about on line for house insurance, I found it was anything from £255 to £400+/-)

I have been told South Essex will cover land that is not at home, but they dont seem to be too bothered in sending out proposal forms and will not provide any form of quote without a completed form

So..... anywhere else that will actually bother to give a quote for land that is not at home? Please?

 

[HappyNeds]

Hi The Fuzzy Furry, we found exactly the same thing, that the quote for our home insurance with NFU (which we would have to have to be able to add the land away from home liability insurance) worked out more than twice the price of our normal home insurance, and much less cover. It also had some scary terms and conditions in the small print, one of which said we would have to renew with them for a minimum of 5 years! (and the price could just keep going up)

We have just taken out land liability insurance with KBIS, which worked out cheaper to keep our home insurance where it is, and take this policy out just to cover the land. It also means, as they are a horsey insurance company, they are going to be fine with horses on the land, and potentially if we want to add any other horse-related bits (any future stables, or horse insurance etc) to the policy at a later date it will be easy to do.

KBIS call it public and product liability, which is the most basic level of insurance to get pulblic liabilty on, they were helpful on the phone, emailed out the documents, which we signed, and scaned and emailed back. All sorted on Friday last week, and a relief to know we are covered just in case! I found out about KBIS from another forum user from my thread last week, so hope it helps you too!

Thanks M

 

[FOD]

Third party liability insurance is indeed vital for any land you own whatever its use. You may say this is unfair but think about it the other way, you are walking down a pavement and are seriously injured by a tree falling from the adjoining property (the tree has been in dangerous condition for sometime and the landowner hasn't dealt with it). You would want to be compensated for your injuries and loss of earnings as a result of the accident. If the landowner did not have liability insurance you would have to sue them personally for your losses and if you were seriously injured your losses may exceed their assets meaning that they cannot pay.

How fair would it be if you were injured, seriously, and lost your ability to work as a result then could not get compensation?

Hi KristmassKatt,

I think you have the wrong end of the stick as no matter what they would sue you personally, having the insurance just means you pass it the the insurance company to deal with.

I would think that if the said land owner did not care enough to care for his land he would not have insurance anyway and you would be in for a run for your money to get anything and if they had been caring for there land (dont forget you have to prove negligence on the part of the land owner to win a claim) then you would not get a payout anyway.

Kind regards
FOD

 

[Kat]

Hi KristmassKatt,

I think you have the wrong end of the stick as no matter what they would sue you personally, having the insurance just means you pass it the the insurance company to deal with.

I would think that if the said land owner did not care enough to care for his land he would not have insurance anyway and you would be in for a run for your money to get anything and if they had been caring for there land (dont forget you have to prove negligence on the part of the land owner to win a claim) then you would not get a payout anyway.

Kind regards
FOD

Thanks, but you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. I was trying not to get too bogged down in technicalities whilst making a point. Yes a claimant would name you personally in proceedings but it would be dealt with by your insurers and most importantly paid for by your insurers.

I was trying to explain why it isn't unfair to impose duties on landowners and why they should have insurance. If a claimant sues successfully they can bankrupt a defendant to get their compensation, they can force a sale of their home etc etc so getting insurance is sensible.

Unfortunately no matter how careful you are accidents can happen, there may be a liability there may not but legal proceedings are expensive to deal with either way. If you are not insured how will you defend yourself against proceedings?

Of course everyone should endeavour to ensure that their land is safe for everyone (and different duties apply to those there legally and those there illegally) but it is important to be insured just in case.

Oh and for the record you don't have to prove negligence to successfully sue for compensation statutory breach would do too!

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

This thread has made me very cross!!

The idea that if someone is trespassing across YOUR land and has an accident which results in them sueing you just beggars belief.

What on earth has happened to common sense? The "where there's blame, there's a claim" line of thinking has made the world go mad. Accidents happen. Deal with it.

 

[FairyLights]

my fields are well fenced and hedged and have padlocks and chains on both ends of the gates. I cant see how anyone could claim negligence. they have no footpaths and no public access.

 

[FOD]

Thanks, but you are teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. I was trying not to get too bogged down in technicalities whilst making a point. Yes a claimant would name you personally in proceedings but it would be dealt with by your insurers and most importantly paid for by your insurers.

I was trying to explain why it isn't unfair to impose duties on landowners and why they should have insurance. If a claimant sues successfully they can bankrupt a defendant to get their compensation, they can force a sale of their home etc etc so getting insurance is sensible.

Unfortunately no matter how careful you are accidents can happen, there may be a liability there may not but legal proceedings are expensive to deal with either way. If you are not insured how will you defend yourself against proceedings?

Of course everyone should endeavour to ensure that their land is safe for everyone (and different duties apply to those there legally and those there illegally) but it is important to be insured just in case.

Oh and for the record you don't have to prove negligence to successfully sue for compensation statutory breach would do too!

Most of this has already been pointed out and for those who dont know what statutory breach is:

A criminal offence but one for which an injured person may make a civil claim if they have suffered injury as a result of the breach (unless specifically excluded in the statute itself).
or
A failure to carry out duties or to fulfil obligations imposed by legislation.
or
A breach of statutory duty occurs when one party fails to comply with an obligation placed upon it by statute.
ETC
Which sounds much like negligence to me:
Negligence is a civil tort that occurs when a person breaches their duty of care owed to another and as a result, that person suffers an injury or a loss.

But the point of this post was not to debate terms/words or even if it is right or not just to pass on helpfull information that others could use or might not know.
In a polite way

 

[FOD]

my fields are well fenced and hedged and have padlocks and chains on both ends of the gates. I cant see how anyone could claim negligence. they have no footpaths and no public access.

Hi,

This is why I thought to put the tread on, as I and KristmasKatt have pointed out its not if we think its right or wrong or even if the person has the right to be on your land, if something happens to someone on your land they might try to claim/sue you and you have to deffend or pay either way there is hugh costs involved and having insurance saves you and yours having to foot the bill and the stress, so though I wish we did not have to have it I sleep better knowing we do and if anything happens someone else will deal with it.

 

[Suechoccy]

to add, the NFU will not provide quote or cover for land - UNLESS you have property insured with them already. They have confirmed this via phone and also email.

NFU cover my land and I don't have any other insurances with them, although when I first covered the land I did have a horse policy with them (10 years ago) which I've since cancelled. This year it's just the land away from home via a contents policy.

 

[Luci07]

Some time ago we had an attempted break in at our yard. The thief (or thieves) were probably laughing on the other side of their face though as they attempted to break into the tack room via the stable of an extremely territorial horse. The police informed the YO that, had someone been injured, even though they were attempting a break in and trespassing, as there was no sign warning said horse was dangerous - she would have been liable.

Agree the law is an ass in things like that but still better to protect yourself against idiots.

 

[lara b]

how about a whacking great sign that says 'stay the **** off my land you bunch of moronic vultures!'

only joking, don't actually have any land of my own, am just sick of this ridiculous blame and claim culture

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Thanks for the info about KBIS via this thread & via PM too

Suechoccy - all I can go on is what was in the NFU email & also what I was told on the phone after making enquiries last December - they were very emphatic at the time

It also makes my blood boil about trespassers/thieves/horse stealers etc who can 'possibly sue' me - I also have no public right of way across my land & the nearest is a bridleway which is 20 yds from my yard gate.

To this end, I used to have signs on the main gate & in the yard when I ran it as a production & schooling yard etc with the wording:
'Anyone entering this property enters at their own risk and liability.
The owners take no responsibility for any accidents or injury to persons or their animals howsoever caused'.

I think I'll dig them out again unless any legal beagles on here think its even more of a red rag??