lifting hind leg when standing

[tessy]

Hi, some advice please, noticed that my boy started resting his near hind about 4 weeks ago then about a week later he started to lift it up. He lifts it for under a second then puts it back down and often has it positioned further forward than the other. There has not been any heat or swelling and cannot palpate any areas that are tender. However about 6 months ago he did go through a stage where it occasionally was a bit puffy around the pastern in the mornings but this cleared up.
He has been stiff of late and he moves away when grooming off side quarters.
He has not shown any signs of lameness but he is shuffling in movement, canter looks worst than trot.
Had the vet out last week and he confirmed no lameness but very slight positive on flexion.
he confirmed that he was stiff in quite a few places so we got the physio booked, Physio confirmed tight in most areas, poll, neck, back, quarters. He had the machine that makes the muscles soften and move around with the tens machine, this was done under sedation.
She is coming back in 2 weeks. rest for 5 days then walk long and low in pessoa.
Sooo, the main question is, could the leg be linked to the back/sacro illiac area? and is this more likely than problems in the limb? have talked to people and it doesnt seem to be symptoms for joint probs?
decided with the vet to have the physio first but bone scan if the leg does not improve.

 

[Moomin1]

Sounds a bit like a touch of arthritis to me? How old is he? I only say this because my old gelding got arthritis in his neck shortly before he died and he used to stretch his neck out constantly. It sounds as if maybe your horse is trying to relieve the stiffness by stretching?

 

[tessy]

Hi Moomin, he is a 10yr old 16.3h warmblood, would he not be lame or have heat/swelling if arthritis? or could it be early signs?

 

[Moomin1]

He wouldn't necessarily show lameness from it, although he is very young and I would have thought the vet would've picked up on it if it was that. Has the vet suggested xrays or anything?

 

[muff747]

I would check out this web site and bear it in mind when the vet comes.
http://www.dsldequine.info/
This condition is a lot more common in all breeds than many owners and vets realise. They are only just finding this out in the states.
My gelding has almost certainly got it but his symptoms are reasonably mild compared to the horses on this site, but it has caused him a lot of pain over the last few years. One of the signs was he lifts his legs up under his belly, and sometimes stamps his back feet, especially when he has strained them say when he gets up after lying down. I have self diagnosed by exchanging many e-mails and discussions on this group where I checked out other owners reports of symptoms. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSLD-equine/
He is stable at the moment due to the management of his diet and care.
I hope it isn't this but it does help to know what you are dealing with so just bear it in mind.
Good luck

 

[tessy]

He has suggested bone scan as he isnt lame there is no point doing nerve blocks. I dont want to spend a fortune on loads of diagnostics (spending ins limit) if we are barking up the wrong tree and his symptoms dont seem to match perfectly to anything at the moment, doesnt look like stringhalt/shivers? he doesnt do it when walking, is shaky or wobbly when lift leg, can easily walk backwards etc.
He does however seem weak over his back/quarters, always had problems getting topline and he struggles to really hold himself in a nice round outline.
thanks Muff747 will read though that article, looks interesting

 

[muff747]

He does however seem weak over his back/quarters, always had problems getting topline and he struggles to really hold himself in a nice round outline.QUOTE]

That's sounds like my boy. Does yours tend to come to halt with one hind leg under himself? Does he ever "knuckle over" with his back fetlock in the school? Or stand with his bottom leaning against the wall of his stable?
I have a list of my boys signs that practically fill an A4 sheet but they don't all display all of the signs!
The vet probably wouldn't recognise signs of D/E unless he is very aware of it and knows what he is looking for. That's why I have never attempted to get a diagnosis, it would be pointless and I have no insurance either.

 

[tessy]

Hi again, he can halt square and def no dropping of fetlocks or leaning in stable, there are some very sad cases on that site, hopefully not what my boy has. did try to get a movie clip of my daughters phone but didnt work, will try and get loaded up.
Interestingly, he has been put on bute for a few days post physio and cannot see any improvement on that, was hoping he would improve? but maybe that means it points more to neuro probs rather than joint pain?

 

[muff747]

Bute didn't work on my boy either. What is he like for the farrier/trimmer, any reluctance to lift his feet? What about going downhill, is he hesitant? Some decribe the canter becoming like bunny hops.
there is usually some heat in the back of the fetlock and my boy has some thickening around the back of his fetlocks.
If he has none of these signs then thankfully, it probably isn't D/E, but if you still don't find an answer, I would join the yahoo group and look at other members lists of symptoms b/c there are many different variations.
My boy most likely is affected in his hips and in the laminae in his feet, he hasn't dropped in his fetlocks. If he has too much sugar, as in spring grass, he has a relapse. Then he looks very much like he has low grade laminitis but my vet has agreed that it doesn't show in his hoof growth, and I can't feel a pulse or it is very weak.
Good luck with your search for answers, I feel for you - been there

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

My friend's TB started doing this and it turned out some weeks later to be an abscess. Sometimes they can bubble away for weeks and weeks before they become apparent to an owner.

 

[Andalucian]

Hi, what is his foot balance like? 10 is a classic age for them to start to show pain in the foot, if they've had long term imbalance issues. Worth checking this before spending loads on investigation further up the limb (if it is this (and I'm thinking bull nosing, and underrun heels here maybe) then it will affect the whole hind limb and possibly the lumbar area.

 

[tessy]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies, feeling depressed about it today watching him lifting his leg and not knowing what it is. I know I should just get the scintigraphy done but at his age there will probably be some form of changes in the joints and who wants to 'highlight' these things if that isnt the cause of the lifting of his leg. everything that I am reading about seems to either have swelling/heat/lameness and he has none? (if he did, I would be straight to the vet for all tests) but he does have a sore back/quarters which are common in hock problems.
the only thing I could find was cunean bursitis, it says that I need to lift the leg slightly of the ground with hoof in toe touched only position and then can feel the inflammed area in the lower/inside of the hock, will try that later!

Muff747, his canter is more that he is dragging himself along on he forehand rather than sitting back and not much flexion through the back.
He has never been particulary strong up or down hills in walk (canters fine) we had been doing an increased amount of hillwork in walk to try and improve his strength behind and topline over his quarters, maybe this is why the problem is showing up.
Box of frogs, would be very happy if it did turn out to be an absess, he has been like this for about 4weeks now so would have thought would have shown its ugly head by now?

Andalucian: thanks for reply, his hoof balance is pretty good, he has a bit of a balance issue in his right fore where he tends to load more on the inside, the farrier is aware so works with it. It does to me look like heel pain, because he is lifting the heel off the ground but wouldnt he be much more sore and lame if it was? but spose he would also do that to relieve sore hock/fetlock. He is very slightly cow hocked and straight legged in conformation so this would increase his risks of hock probs?

Have the vet and physio back in 10 days, hopefully he will be less stiff and maybe a lameness or sore area can be identified easier. Was really hoping that the leg lfiting would stop when he had had physio, in the hope that it was discomfort from quarters.

 

[kirstie]

Hi, I feel for you, I know how worrying it can be.
A horse at my old yard had very similar sounding symptoms, it started with him holding his hind leg up when tie on the yard, resting it constantly and would then hold it up in his stable as well.
His owner had the vet out a number of times, physio etc, he wasn't lame but stiff behind. She didn't want to ride as she was worried her horse was in pain and was stuck in a kind of limbo.
It carried on for about 8 months, they did a bute trial eventually which did show an improvement.
The vet was very dismissive and the owner felt that she was going mad.
I spoke to her a few times about it and convinced her to be more firm with her vet and start demanding answers.
He eventually went for a bone scan and it showed that he had DJD in the hock. Injections into the hock and a careful rehab programme have really helped, he is much better and will hopefully just need maintenance injections.

If I were you I would want to know what is going on...

 

[tessy]

Hi Kirstie, thats interesting, sooo, did her horse not have any heat or swelling in the time he did this? do you know if he suffered from stiff back as well? have a week till vet next out so will almost certainly get scan booked in if no improvement in that time. He didnt show any imrpovement on bute thought?

 

[kirstie]

Hi Tessy, no, he had no heat or swelling at all to touch.
He was stiff through his back where he was compensating for the hock joint, she regularly got him seen by a back person thinking it could have been a problem there.
It showed up on a bone scan, is that what you are thinking of getting done?

IMO it is worth investigating if you can afford it, whatever it is could be sorted or at least slowed down in its tracks if you catch it early enough.

 

[little MJ]

Have you thought about suspensory ligaments my horse has a lot of the same thing wrong! He had problems with his suspensory ligaments!

 

[muff747]

Have you thought about suspensory ligaments my horse has a lot of the same thing wrong! He had problems with his suspensory ligaments!

I agree little MJ, that's what DSLD is, degeneration of the suspensory ligament desmitis, now known to affect the rest of the body so now called ESPA,
equine systemic protoglycan accumulation,
see here http://www.dsldequine.info/

 

[Kenzo]

There could be something going on in his hocks, the thing to remember is there doesn't need to be any heat, swelling or lameness, flexion tests have there uses but a horse can pass one day and fail the next.

Lameness won't be obvious and is harder to detect and pin point if the problem is in both hind limbs.

Back, ligament and pelvic problems can be a secondry effect if there is a problem brewing in the hind limbs (the hocks for example) and no amout of physio and chiropractors etc working on a horse will sort it out, yes it will relieve the back for a short period of time, days, months and tell you to use a pessoa and all that business but the problems will soon come back, meanwhile causing more issues elsewhere in the meantime, a horse shouldn't need to use a pessoa unless your rehabilitating muscles, but you need to know why the muscles and the horse is using them in such a way in the first place, specially when you have picked up on these kind of symptoms.

Basically all I'm suggesting is, by the sounds of things you are far better off having xrays done, not only for peace of mind (if clear) but for a quick and more accurate diagnosis, it could save you more money and stress in the long run as well not potentially making the problem worse for your horse or more permanent damage.

 

[tessy]

Hi, thanks again for all your advise,
spoke to vet in the week and he still thinks the lifting of the leg is a strange symptom for hock pain, also he is surprised that he didnt improve on bute, (have increased dose to 2 twice daily to see if improves) he is going to check his circulation when he comes on weds as apparantly they can get a problem that can cause 'pins and needles' he will do a rectal exam to check artery.
Have been reading up about ligaments and symptoms could point towards proximal suspensory desmitis? it says that you will see lameness on a circle if the affected leg is on the outside, he is looking more unhappy on the right rein on a circle and it is his left hind that he keeps lifting, so will discuss this with the vet.
next step will def be bone scans and possibly ultrasound to check the ligament if the vet doesnt have any other ideas.

 

[tessy]

going in for scintigraphy tommorow! hopefully this will flag up any areas of inflammation, xray those areas and get a diagnosis. worried what they will find but at least we will know what we are dealing with. He has to stay for 3 days as radioactive after!
3 days of not mucking out, will get fat as will probably be baking cakes instead! Hubby will love me

 

[muff747]

Good luck, let us know how you go on.

 

[tessy]

Boring for you guys im afraid as didnt have the scintigraphy done! took him in and the vet did a full trot up, cantered in school etc. He was sound, negative on flexion tests. not 100% happy on right rein canter, bit stiff behind not bringing the outside hind forward enough. went throught my long list of "could it be this?" and although he said couldnt be sure probably wasnt proximal suspensory as would show on flexion or hocks for same reason. he checked his pulse (by a rectal exam) to hind legs and fine, maybe has twisted his pelvis at some point and the leg lifting a bit of a trapped nerve? he is also tight in his poll so will continue with physio and work him long and low.
obviously if he appears worst then can book the scintigraphy at a later date.
Sooo glad didnt have to leave him there

 

[ArabisHorse]

Just wondering how you got on with this, I know it is an old post, my 6 yo started coming out of stable a bit stiff, progressed to leg lifting when standing, tested positive with joint block to SI, had SI injected and is now much worse. The leg lifting seems to be quite unusual so I thought it worth following up on your case!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Have you thought about suspensory ligaments my horse has a lot of the same thing wrong! He had problems with his suspensory ligaments!

I also thought this my horses gait changed especially canter just before he went lame and it turned out to be suspensory ligament behind, he also lifted his leg really high when you picked his feet out.

didn't realise post was this old lol!

 

[ArabisHorse]

A lot of people have mentioned suspensorys to me, but he had a nerve block and didnt show any response until they got up to SI, I am assuming if it were suspensory he would have shown some improvement when blocked lower down leg?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Yes it should have my horse was sound when the suspensory was blocked, so as long as there was no improvement they should be clear well that's what's we have to assume but who knows with these horses they are not always the easiest to diagnose, I hope your horse makes a good recovery.