Light seat vs sit up seat - your experiences

pootleperkin

pootleperkin

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Not having had much recent training until the past year, I wasn't massively aware of the differences in jumping technique that trainers are teaching these days.

I used to jump BSJA (as was) back in the day with my old mare, and although I didn't have a lot of professional training, I definitely sat up between fences, using my seat and shoulders to control the speed on the way to the fence and then taking a more forward seat when moving forward into the jump/for jump offs etc.

At a training clinic with an eventer this summer, he had us in two point light seat right from the get go, short reins and off you go. At the time, I just felt like a bit of **** rider, being told to get out the saddle, but did it and things went fine. However, I did feel a little like a passenger though, not particularly helping my horse much and pretty much just hoping he was going to jump. Also, I didn't feel massively confident coming out of the training, though I did enjoy the experience over all.

Anyway, speed forward to the the last couple of weeks and I have had a couple of Susie Gibson lessons with my young mare. I have been really really enjoying it and guess what - Susie is happy with my seat and the fact I sit up between fences! My mare is big and bold, although she doesn't rush, so sitting up is exactly what she needs. All of a sudden I feel like I can ride again and Susie has complimented me on my core stability and riding (particularly as I am having to jump in my treeless dressage saddle - Pie Face is evil to fit - looks like we will be having a made to measure jump saddle :( ) which is a great confidence boost; tbh, I have really lacked confidence recently, thinking that my jump riding was now incorrect and ineffective.

So, I now know there are two roads to Rome, but was just curious as to people's thoughts on the matter. Who prefers which technique - is it mainly eventers that take the lighter seat approach? For me, it just feels natural to sit up and balance the horse.

Bit of vid of us here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151687155832201&set=vb.632337200&type=2&theater
 
I think it depends on the horse, the rider, the trainer, and the discipline, and there's no right way.

Just thinking of mine and my training/competing buddy's horses - they are so different in style and atttide (as are we as riders), that we're often taught two quite different seat styles by the same trainers.
Hers is a very forward pingy jumper, with a tendancy to rush, he has a light mouth and will fight overriding so it really benefits her to ride sitting up, controlling the movement with her shoulders and the pace with her seat.
Mine is the polar opposite - a lazy oaf who doesn't really mind whacking poles out, and needs to learn to be lighter and more forward - he tends to do well if I'm in a lighter/forward seat and keeping a similar posture throughout to keep the rythm. I've explained that awfully but it make sense in my head :p
 
No I get it entirely Twiglet - I understand what you mean! My old mare was v buzzy, so it made complete sense for me to sit up on her. My other horse, who I was told go in light seat on is more like yours - once he has recuperated from his pastern strain, I'm going to take him to Susie too to see what she makes of him - it will be interesting to see if she asks me to change my style on him.

Some friends have said that certain trainers only train one style - not in your experience it sounds. I guess the best should be adaptable for what they see in front of them. Interesting :)
 
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Al is almost always in a half seat between fences, then sits a few strides before. It's hard to explain, but she's not really out of the saddle, she's just not on the saddle- her weight is still central and it's not a 2-point like for XC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYZhg9N1-Jg
So this is on a very green 5yo doing his first ever indoor class. You can just about see that she is out of the saddle wherever there's more than 4 or 5 strides between fences but sitting back in to ride a corner or to a fence isn't a sudden change, it's just a slight weight redistribution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ib7My1Xf24
Then this is with Smokes, who is the bay's polar opposite- he's sharp and buzzy and full of confidence. Between fences she still has the half seat but it anchors him much more, and it allows her to hover over his antics a bit without losing control.

She says (her instructors say!) that it's about being able to use your seat when you need to without a sudden change, but making sure you're central and balanced and your shoulders aren't forwards. It's a barely there change, but it makes a lot of difference to how hers all go SJ.
 
There are distinct schools of jump training, just as in dressage, designed to reflect certain types of horses, courses, history etc. As horses and courses have become more internationally homogenous riders have become more 'middle ground' with differences reflecting more individual circumstances and riding style even changing between horses. There are still some systemic differences - which is why Ben Mahr went to George Morris for help when he took over Jane Clark's horses - but one is not necessarily 'better' than the other so long as the results are satisfactory. In fact I think too much 'mix and match' without understanding what you hope to accomplish, is potentially less successful than sticking to a reliable system, even if the rider technically 'knows' less.

I think it's very hard to radically change your system once you've established it successfully and the teaching at that point has to be done with great tact and little ego.
 
TarrSteps said:
I think it's very hard to radically change your system once you've established it successfully and the teaching at that point has to be done with great tact and little ego.
Click to expand...

I think this is why I felt so at sea back in June when told to take up the light seat all the time - it went against my roots in jumping if you like! I am always willing to try and makes changes for the good of the horse, but as I say, it will be interesting to see what Susie thinks of Gully and see whether she recommends the same position. I have a feeling that it was a blanket teaching technique - everyone was told to do the same!

Lolo, a balanced and centred seat is what I always strive for; I think I am more likely to achieve it in a seat I am more confident and comfortable in. I noticed in the video I posted that occasionally I do 'hover' a bit, so maybe I am more between than I think. I might also look different when I eventually get something forward cut for me to jump her in! :)
edited to say - just watched Al's vids, and she is in the light seat I was talking about - She is probably in a far better position than me to react to what is happening beneath her (and is probably more likely to need to react looking at Smokey!), but I think I feel more secure sitting up, puts less stress on my older muscles too!
 
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This just made me think about what i do, as like most things in riding you do it without thinking about doing it.
i tend to sit up between fences but with a soft seat (i hope). But i think its because my boy is big in the shoulders so he needs you off them so that he can lift.
And i've had horses who tended to throw in dirty stops and if i was in 2 point i would hit the deck where as sitting up allows me to stay on, much rather have 4 faults then an elimination.
probably depends on a number of factors though!
 
I sit light seat because of my sj trainer, this is how he teaches. It really works for me and my horses and makes good sense when he explains about your point of balance with shorter stirrups. He also hates the driving seat where you use your hips to push for a stride- says it just hollows the back and disengages the hindleg.
But as above there are many different styles and so long as you are soft, balanced and your horse has freedom in its back, no one is better than another.

I like to watch Marcus Ehning, Rodrigo pessoa and some of the other greats who sit very softly and in perfect balance,
 
I haven't jumped my horse round a full course in some time but my old instructor used to get me out of the saddle a bit in between to get him cantering on. I would always sit on the approach, however, because he has a dirty little stop and no way am I coming in to a fence in lightseat on a stopper :D
 
Interesting thread...

I personally think it really does depending on the horse and also the course I am riding.

With my current horse, he is a lazy oaf and so I tend to ride him forwards with a light seat to get him going a bit and moving forwards and free through his back, and then will sit up on the approach to the fence a few strides out...and then after landing will get a lighter seat again and then sit back up. Might be wrong, but it works for us! :smile3: Having said that...I do only tend to use my light seat during a course IF THERE IS ENOUGH SPACE i.e. in summer in big outdoor arenas I do it more to get him going, when it is in a tight indoor arena and the fences come up quick, I use less of my light seat as I need to be sitting up quicker for the fast approaching fence! If that makes sense?!

Each to their own really, as long as you're not harming or interfering with the horse I reckon as long as it works for you both as a pair, go for it!
 
Took my girl to her first SJ event yesterday and despite it being in the same arena as where we train, I defo had to take the sitting up approach, as she went very green on me and spooky! So it was a case of leg wrapped round and keep her going.

Despite this, she was very good, had one in the 65 cm and 4 in the 75 cm, which perversely was a more flowing round - think too flowing as we got a bit close to some hence the poles. TBH, I wasn't thinking much about seat, strides or anything - just keeping her going and forward! Was super pleased with her; you forget how different not having warm up etc in the arena, just heading on in and expecting them to jump 9 or 10 fences all in one go, is! What I took away is that I really need to stride out the longer related distances and in future I will make sure we ride to a set plan, even at 65 cm, to make sure we get the right number of strides and that she gets to make her lovely big bascule at each jump.

Can't wait for my next lesson with Susie!
 
Just as an aside, 'sitting up' is not necessarily the same as 'sitting down' and weight distribution and force doesn't necessarily reflect just upper body position. I quite often see people keep their shoulder back, which does definitely keep them off the neck, but they also push their hips forward and down, which causes the horse to hollow and lock up through the neck and shoulder. It can also be tempting for a rider who comes in behind the motion to make a big move off the ground. Of course there are times when behind is the place to be, but this then does require special attention to shoulder control and an allowing contact.

By the same token, some very skilled riders trained in the light seat can manipulate their weight and force with relatively minor adjustments. They also tend to have good, secure leg positions to keep them centred even if there is a problem. This depends a bit on body type, too, and how the horses are trained/how the rider likes them to go.
 
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