Liver Disease

[Extreme247]

My horse has recently been diagnosed with Liver disease and I'm looking for some advice.

He has never been near ragwort so am unsure how this has managed to happen.

Would love to hear from other people going though the same thing. What were the first symptoms your horse displayed ?

 

[ester]

only symptom was extreme sunburn in October. It has not totally resolved and we have put it down to the cumulative effects of old age given that he has had home made hay for the last 13 years and we have his history for 17 years. Liver tonic from the vets made no difference though he has not had a biopsy. He lives on milkthistle and his white nose is permanently covered.

Of course lots of other things can cause it either long or short term have you been through the possibilities with your vet?

 

[Extreme247]

Been over a few with them but nothing I can pinpoint why he's suddenly come down with it.

He shares hay and his paddock with my other horse, he is fine.

My horse came in slightly wobberly last week, after a blood test he was found to have liver disease. This is the only symptom he has had

 

[sueonmull]

Don't know where abouts in the country you are, or if you cross graze with cattle or sheep, but have you considered liver fluke? Can be a problem up here in the wet west coast and something that is often overlooked.

 

[Extreme247]

I'm near Bedford. He's been be grazed with any sheep or cattle. I'm going to test for liver fluke to rule it out. Out of interest how long does it take horses to recover? I know every case can be different. Everything I've looked at regarding liver disease don't always say the same thing

 

[Extreme247]

Sorry that was meant to say haven't been grazed anywhere with cattle or sheep

 

[sueonmull]

The tests for fluke are not always conclusive but the treatment is very cheap and I used to worm routinely for fluke with a product called Fasinex which I got from my vet. Wet ground is another source for the problem as snails are an intermediate host for the fluke. Perhaps have a chat with your vet, they might think it's worthwhile especially if they're struggling to find other causes. There are a couple of threads on fluke on the H&h forum you might want to look back through.

 

[Snuffles]

Mine still suffering from raised liver enzymes after an acute attack and spell in horspital. I noticed one morning he was just standing in a corner of the paddock, wouldn't come for his bucket. Thought it was colic, but he had raised temperature and heartbeat and wouldn't eat.
No indication prior to this that he had a problem

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

My late horse had liver disease and pony had it 2 years ago and it was quite bad but bloods this week said near normal, we changed her onto marksways haylage and they came down within 6 weeks. (it was the hay supplier)
Try here http://h0rseservices.weebly.com/l.html



New horse had raised liver 6 weeks ago and bloods last week with the pony her GGT levels are up to 168 but pony is ok, biopsy this Tuesday and taking the middle one up to have a blood test. I fear it is the hay supplier again different to small ones but nonetheless it has been pretty crappy stalks/ dirt/ bits metal/dusty /musty etc.

Asked for recommendation on FB and found this new local one who's hay is 99% better, I changed the mare onto haylage till we get biopsy results

In the meantime I have her on Milk Thistle, dried nettles + fresh ones dried out and also Legaphyton.

So without knowing your horse I would start giving the liver some good things including haylage till you find the source, but hay is often the culprit.

I wish Boxoffrogs were on here more often as she is very helpful when it comes to liver and helped me no end in the past.

Remember not every bale of hay is contaminated

http://holistichorse.com/equine-therapy/ten-alternative-plants-that-cleanse-the-liver/

 

[Extreme247]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I don't think it would be his hay. He shares the same hay bale with my other horse and he is fine. They've not really been in much to eat hay (only getting a armful when they come in to be ridden) and living out the rest of the time. The hay all comes off the same fields and other eat the hay, they are all ok. He's been grazing the same paddock for other a year so still at a loss. He's perked up really well with medication so am hoping I've caught it quickly

Not to keen to feed him hayledge as he's now out of work, he'll become over weight. Vet has said his drugs could cause laminitis. He's turn out so not too much of a worry

 

[Snuffles]

IluvCP. How do you mean hay could be the culprit, as in it might have ragwort, or something else? Not aware of this

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

IluvCP. How do you mean hay could be the culprit, as in it might have ragwort, or something else? Not aware of this

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/26393/molds-and-mycotoxins-in-horse-feed-basic-facts


It could have micotoxins depending on the hay and how they made it, whether they baled it quickly to get it in out the oncoming rain making it slightly damp when bailing. I would never rule out hay just because some of the bale is ok does not mean all of it is.

Our local delivery was just checked and it turned out to be the case, it was baled too quickly and smelt mouldy and dusty.

It might indeed have ragwort it, as our last batch was stalk city, so many it looked like 50 chop sticks when we finally worked our way through it.


All I am saying is my little one had bad liver enzymes and we worked through her whole management and the enzymes kept going up. Till the vet suggested putting her on haylage(and she is out of work) and 6 weeks later they went from 168 ish down to 62. This bloods we have changed nothing including her staying on haylage and her bloods are fine, all the others on the yard are having hay but only one gets it (mine) but then no one else want to do a blood test so either she is more susceptible too it or her bit was contaminated as they all share the same field.


If you don't want to think it's hay then speak to the vet and run through everything he has eaten etc and try narrow it down. I went through a year and a half dealing with liver issues mine and friends and picked up a few pointers along the way.

I suggest you read the whole article above but here is a sample



What are mycotoxins?

Mycotoxins are harmful secondary compounds produced by molds that are found in the soil and vegetable matter including grains, forages and feed. They can be formed in the field both before and during harvest, and can continue to be formed under suboptimal storage conditions after harvest. Mycotoxins are nothing new to the poultry, swine and ruminant markets, but less is known about the adverse effects of mycotoxins in horses. These toxins can cause a wide range of clinical signs in horses, including respiratory, gastrointestinal, neurologic, and reproductive problems--even death.

How horses are exposed to mycotoxins?

Horses can be exposed to mycotoxins by eating contaminated feed ingredients such as concentrates (i.e., grains and protein supplements), whole grains, hay, and green pasture--essentially any feed ingredient. Respiratory and/or dermal (skin) entry of mycotoxins can also occur, but these routes are of less significance. The extent of mycotoxin exposure depends on how much of the contaminated ingredient is fed, and the mycotoxin concentrations present in the feed. Any feed ingredient can contain multiple mycotoxins, which will likely interact and become more toxic than they would be separately.

 

[Extreme247]

Can I ask everyone what their horses enzyme levels were when they were first dignosed please. Thank you

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Can I ask everyone what their horses enzyme levels were when they were first dignosed please. Thank you

My mare was 168 last week

 

[Extreme247]

Was that when she was first diagnosed? Or a follow up blood test? How did you get on with the liver biopsy?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Was that when she was first diagnosed? Or a follow up blood test? How did you get on with the liver biopsy?

liver biopsy on this mare is on Tuesday 18th July she had a blood test 6 weeks ago which showed they had risen and the latest bloods shows they had gone up. I have now put my gelding who is out of work onto haylage as he is a lot quieter than normal for a while. He was on soaked 24 hr hay but change to the Timothy mauve marksway as it has less sugars than the blue.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I don't think it would be his hay. He shares the same hay bale with my other horse and he is fine. They've not really been in much to eat hay (only getting a armful when they come in to be ridden) and living out the rest of the time. The hay all comes off the same fields and other eat the hay, they are all ok. He's been grazing the same paddock for other a year so still at a loss. He's perked up really well with medication so am hoping I've caught it quickly

Not to keen to feed him hayledge as he's now out of work, he'll become over weight. Vet has said his drugs could cause laminitis. He's turn out so not too much of a worry

Please don't assume it is not the hay, get some tested, I am sure this poster won't mind me quoting their post from the past.

My pony had slightly raised liver enzymes for a few months last year. He had a big of a funny turn (possibly early onset laminitis but we're not convinced) and had his bloods tested as a result of that. It showed slightly raised white blood cells and raised liver enzymes. He went on vitamin E from the vet and after a month the WBCs were normal but the liver enzymes still raised, they stayed raised for a few months, a liver biopsy (very simple procedure) showed level 1 damage which is totally recoverable from. We then did a hay substitution and swapped to bagged haylage for 6 weeks, after that his enzymes came down and when we returned him onto his normal hay they stayed down. He seems fine now, we are just due another blood test in March. He was never really ill, worked all the time, albeit more gentle hacking than his usual work, he was just not really himself but seems fine now and back to normal (touch wood).

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Well mixed results showed good and bad news

Good news is big horse's liver is trying to repair and minimal damage
bad new middle ones liver is higher than big one 189% so all on haylage now retest next Monday.

Looks like haylage is helping big one so hopefully help middle one.

 

[Leo Walker]

Try here http://h0rseservices.weebly.com/l.html

Thats a very odd site full of weird information please dont rely on that for information, there are far, far, far better sources.

 

[JillA]

I'm interested in this as one of my horses on loan had really bad oedema in all four legs (white stockings) and white nose plus what looked like urticaria not quite erupted all over his skin yesterday. Vet has taken bloods to check but my first thought was liver. I am happy to advise loaner to get him on milk thistle and mycosorb, but what is the vet treatment? I know liver can generally repair itself so by the time symptoms present it is usually pretty bad

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I'm interested in this as one of my horses on loan had really bad oedema in all four legs (white stockings) and white nose plus what looked like urticaria not quite erupted all over his skin yesterday. Vet has taken bloods to check but my first thought was liver. I am happy to advise loaner to get him on milk thistle and mycosorb, but what is the vet treatment? I know liver can generally repair itself so by the time symptoms present it is usually pretty bad

Not always Jilla, My Id horse was just a little lacking in energy which made me do blood test which found liver was higher than it should be. Same with my other one seemed a little down and under and not himself but neither of them are in *the too late bracket*

My vet just said carry on what I am doing

Feed wise and supplement wise and retest next week


I have them on D&H chaff
local feed merchant nuts

Milk thistle
nettles
Legaphyton
I will get some licorice tomorrow and they can have 4 sticks per day

You can also use

Legaphyton (with milk thistle) http://www.equistro.co.uk/ProductPage/LEGAPHYTON.html
Gold Label - Rescue
Licorice Root
Dandilion
Tumaric
real lemon juice
Immuplus
nettles

 

[JillA]

My loan horse has tested positive for liver disease, awaiting going in for a biopsy and vets are less than positive, even to the extent of discussing euthenasia. What is the gold standard treatment? Horse is 18, a 17hh Swedish Warmblood and other than DJD has no history of illness or UV sensitivity (which is the case now). Any encouraging help appreciated - he is one of those genuinely nice characters.

ETA loanee didn't know the enzymes level, says she will ask