Liver - high GGT

SEL

SEL

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I've been doing a search on here and it looks like there are a few similar stories from a while back, so any input appreciated. Might be long!

My mare with PSSM1 tied up 3 weeks ago. She doesn't tie-up in the 'frozen to the spot' sense, just gets lethargic and stops going forward. Vet came Fri eve to give her painkillers and we didn't take bloods then because the lab was shut. Took bloods a few days later and her CK was 570 and AST 1800.

I know this horse and I know how she recovers from these tie-ups and she just isn't herself. We've had 2 abscesses in 3 weeks (different feet) which is unusual and she's very quiet when I loose school her. By now I would normally be trying to persuade her that bucking and galloping round is a bad idea - she barely wants to move out of a walk.

So this week when we were due to have muscle enzymes taken again I asked for a full blood panel. Vets thought it was a bit OTT but I was hoping it would put my mind at rest. It didn't.

CK - 534 (her baseline is 400-500 when she's in work, so given she's had 3 weeks off this is a bit high)
AST - 700 (fine - coming down)
GGT - 174. So with a range of 60 tops this has rather thrown me. The rest of the liver enzymes are within range apart from Alb being slightly over at 44 (top 37)
WBC etc all within range

Vets are concerned because we have a fair amount of blood history with her and she's never shown elevated liver enzymes before - even post tie-ups.

She's fed a boring diet of kwik beet, oat chaff and a tiny amount of copra for taste. Supplement wise she's on vitamin E, Branch chain amino acids, l-glutamine, mag oxide, l-carnitine, milk thistle. I've pulled everything apart from the vitamin E & milk thistle but she's been on those supplements for 2 years without issue. I've also pulled the glug of veg oil that she gets.

The vet has recommended a course of legophyton (sp?) which is on order.

Her paddock is basically mud right now, but there were no signs of any toxic plants last year and our hay looks and smells fine. I'm about to worm test so can do liver fluke as well.

Any ideas? We're going to test again in 2 weeks but she's definitely not herself and I'm not sure what to do for the best at the moment.

Spare toffee crisp going if you made it to the bottom ;)
 
Yes, Arty mare had raised GGT last March. It was very worrying at the time as she lost an awful lot of weight and would lie down on her side for hours and hours in the field.

She was fed the same feed and on the same pasture as Dabs but he was fine, so I stopped feeding her the hay she was eating and gave her his haylage instead while I had the hay tested. She gradually recovered and the hay came back as being full of mycotoxins (sorry, I can't remember which specifically at the moment), so I threw it all away.

I've never known anything like that before
 
DabDab said:
Yes, Arty mare had raised GGT last March. It was very worrying at the time as she lost an awful lot of weight and would lie down on her side for hours and hours in the field.

She was fed the same feed and on the same pasture as Dabs but he was fine, so I stopped feeding her the hay she was eating and gave her his haylage instead while I had the hay tested. She gradually recovered and the hay came back as being full of mycotoxins (sorry, I can't remember which specifically at the moment), so I threw it all away.

I've never known anything like that before
Click to expand...

Can you remember who tested the hay? Although we're using YO's normal supplier it is a batch he's got in from some other fields he cut so I did wonder about it. Most of the yard are on it, but I guess mine has underlying problems so would be the first to show issues if it wasn't a good batch.

Hope its not the hay - there's not much out there to buy at the moment!
 
*just here for the toffee crisp :p.

I just want to add empathy as we've done the trailing the fields, considering liver fluke as we had had sheep before he arrived though no cohabiting and we decided the timelne was out (I don't think testing really works for this iirc) etc etc and never really worked out why. Oher than the photosensitivity he was at least ok in himself though. Interestingly latest results his GGT dropped but his CK/AST were a bit high. Hay was pretty much all home cut.

I think after such a wet winter I would consier the mycotoxin possibility (someone near us had a bad problem with this a few springs ago when it was very wet- very little/no grass as over stocked).

I stripped the supplements back other than the linseed, but he's been better since I reintroduced and he went cresty without the MagOx so in hindsight wished I'd left it in!.
 
Hmm, no I can't, but I'll have a look to see if I can find the paperwork when I get home.

I do remember that it was an ELISA test, and that it cost around £180
 
During the last really wet spring summer (2012 I think?) my horses liver enzymes elevated, GGT up to 800ish, so I tend not to panic at 200. My belief for my own horse was that it was likely to be linked to mycotoxins in the wet ground. He had high levels for 2 years but was fed on hay that had been cut during the wet summer and then grass that had rust spores in it. My suggestion to a friend who’s horse came up high lately was to try to switch grazing if possible, or supplement with hay sourced elsewhere, and feed a mycotoxin binder or similar and milk thistle and drop Work to a very easy maintenance level). Her horses levels went up for 2 months, then cleared back to normal. Both her horse and my horse are on great form now so try not to panic. (Mine doesn’t have PSSM but does have RER).
 
Mine had liver issues just over 2 years ago- seemed fine in every way other than severe lethargy and blood spots in her soles. Couldn't get to the bottom of it, she was getting a bit better slowly but nothing amazing, I coincidentally moved yards and within 2 weeks she was better in herself and bloods not long after showed everything back to normal. We only moved a couple of miles away but I can only presume it was something environmental. All we did was field rest and legaphyton also.
 
SEL said:
I know this horse and I know how she recovers from these tie-ups and she just isn't herself.
Click to expand...

I totally sympathise and am having a similar issue myself at the moment. Same as you "she just isn't herself". Bloods came back clear including cushings. I'm going to try Mycasorb as like you I've already gone down the milk thistle root. May also try a pro/pre biotic but beyond that I'm stumped

Sorry I've offered little help but I do feel your pain
 
My mare was recently blood tested and her GGT was 543. Her GLDH was high at 16 (top 12) and her eosinophils were confusing as hers were 0.8 (range is 0-1) but her % level was 11.8% (range is 0-10%). She was immediately put on a course of antibiotics and given a liver fluke wormer (vet said tests are not accurate so to treat anyway). She was given a liver supplement and a tonic though she absolutely refused the tonic so i have put her on milk thistle instead. Bloods are being retested next week and depending on the results will determine where we go from here.

I immediately went into panic mode as she had a very bad start in life and ragwort poisoning is a possibility. However, she hasnt lost weight, appetite is good and no actual symptoms of liver damage so i have everything crossed it is easily sorted.
 
Feeling a bit better about those results reading some of your posts - it's so worrying. I've got mycosorb A on order so hoping that will make a difference. I'll keep you posted...
 
Yes Arty's highest reading was 773, but didn't want to post that in first reply as realistically she had pretty severe symptoms and I have no idea at what level symptoms would start and/or whether it would vary from horse to horse.

Hope it's more of a blip with yours and sorts itself with a bit of assistance
 
Hi our mare has recently been 'not herself', little bit lethargic and dropped weight so we had her blooed tested. Her ALP was 406 (10-326 normal range) and GGT enzymes were increased. Vet told us that if this enzyme was raised it was a sure sign that the liver was compromised. Red & White bloods cells were fine.

She was put on antibiotics and we gave her NAFF BLK & Thrive supplements. No exercise, changed her hay (although this was a precaution just in case there was something in the batch that she reacted too - other horses in yard are fine on it), ovenght turnout and just gave her lots of chill out time.

We didn't need to go down the biopsy route thank goodness as her Bile acids were normal and she was blood tested 2 weeks later, everything back within normal range.

It was a very worrying time but like you I read lots of positive stories and kept hopeful. She was ridden for the first time in 3 weeks last week and was definitely full of beans. She's been on unlimited hay and TS conditioning cubes and has put some condition back on. It's been a long drawn out winter and I am wondering if her liver was compromised due to environmental issue/ mycotoxins as it's been so wet and perfect conditions for fungus.
 
Thanks everyone. She's given me a stressful 24 hours by escaping into a field of fresh grass and not getting spotted for about 4 hours we reckon. Ate until her tummy hurt so last night was late visits for colic watch. I've been feeding zeolite since the liver results and it must be doing something because I was expecting a stable of cow pats this morning but actually had normal - but very green - poo.

I am beginning to think it might be relating to the muddy field so hopefully if we move fields later this week then that will help.

Thanks for the good news stories and Spangles hope yours continues to improve. I swear this horse is turning my hair grey!
 
Well I've just gone searching for my old post because its a real feeling of deja vu right now and I need to offload!

Boxing Day - looked like she'd tied up. Given it was a run of bank holidays we went through the normal protocol, but I did video me briefly trying to ride her to send to the new vet practice we've just registered with. Came out today to do [yet another] lameness evaluation and took bloods for CK and AST so we could understand how the muscles were repairing. I asked for GGT again.

So we have CK at 270 - the lowest she has ever, ever recorded on a test. That's a normal horse range and would suggest that she didn't tie up and her stiff, no energy movement is not PSSM related.
AST in the 700s but GGT elevated again at 180. Bile test clear.
Nothing in blood test to indicate infection or any other problems.

We're on a different yard and with a different hay source to last year.

Horse is obviously sore and unwilling to move. She's showing no energy whatsoever (even with her field mate yelling constantly for her during the lameness eval). Her muscles are soft and squidgy and don't feel at all PSSM'y.

So back on liver tonics whilst I try and work out what else can cause liver damage. I've found some articles on oxidative stress in racehorses elevating GGT so about to dive into that.

I swear I'll be ready to qualify as a vet by the time this mare has finished with me.
 
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