Liver problems and COPD

[dapple2807]

Here goes...my first thread! My 8 yr old TB has COPD but also has previously had liver problems (i didn't find any of this out until after I bought him, he was sold to me while on loan to this person...thats another story) I found all of this out from his actual owner.

The breathing/COPD im going to investigate, allergy test further down the line.

He has however previously had liver problems, bloods coming back etc. This was last year, he had bloods taken 3 times and on the 3rd attempt came back clear after feeding straight alfalfa and sugar beet and flat oats. His then owner was advised to not feed any mixes - does anybody have an reason for this? Ive contacted quite a few feed companies now and all have recommended mixes such as cool mix and happy hoof (spillers) so am unsure what to do??? Any advice greatly appreciated. Could it be possible he had some kind of virus and this would cause the bloods to come back with bad liver results? and may not be a problem anymore and that his sometimes sluggishness/lack of energy is due to the COPD? Horses are going out onto spring grass tomorrow for a couple of hours - is this a cause for concern with high protein levels? So many questions....all very confusing.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

A damaged liver needs a very low protein diet. And no oils ever, so that means no conditioning products ever, as they all contain high levels of oil. The liver has to work very hard to break down oils and fats. All animals need some protein but the protein your horse does have must be of the highest quality you can afford. In addition, Yea Sac (or similar) will aid hind gut digestion which is often compromised in liver damaged horses. Milk Thistle will also aid liver damaged horses. D&H do a high quality dried Milk Thistle in a tub that lasts months. My rescue horse Angel (starving to death and forced to eat ragwort as nothing else green in the so-called field) had D&H alfalfa (not the oil one) as a base feed, and a small amount of D&H leisure mix for the high quality protein, Yea Sac for hind gut digestion and Milk Thistle to support the liver. Dampened down with wet speedibeet. She did absolutely brilliantly on this. Ragwort poisoned livers can never recover - the best you can do is stabilise them on what liver function they have left (Angel lives an almost normal life on 25% ish liver function). If the liver damage is caused by something else eg infection of some sort, then the liver can regenerate and eventually the horse will have a full liver function back again. In addition to the diet, liver damaged horses need to be stabled in summer sunshine as they suffer from acute photosensitivity which means any white areas/pink skin will burn horribly. It's more than "normal" sunburn so there's no product that will work effectively. They have to be stabled. In mid-summer, a horse can burn even on overcast days. Spring grass is only an issue as with any horse, ie they will get fat. The liver doesn't need the extra work of handling and storing redundant calories so I'd watch your ned carefully and don't put him on too lush grass for long. If he's got any white on him, it might be wise to start stabling in the middle of the day but of course you have to balance that with his COPD!

With the COPD, I'd research the allergy test before you sign up to it. My vets discussed this with me as my gelding Sunny has Summer Pasture Allergy - same as dust allergy or hay allergy but the trigger is pollen. They referred to it as the REACT test. It isn't cheap - they quoted me approx £700 - and the results aren't always helpful in any way. They test a range of potential allergens but I understand that false positives are very very common. It's most likely that your horse is allergic to the spores in either hay, dust and/or pollens. You can probably pin it down further by noting when your horse starts coughing. If your insurance covers the cost of the test, you might find an exclusion from then on for anything to do with your ned's chest/lungs. I'm just starting Sunny on a trial regime of nosenet, possibly sprayed with NostrilVet 24/7, ventipulmin twice a day until the pollen danger is over (ie flipping October), possibly an antihistamine as a clinical trial (they say horses don't do well on them) and possibly a steroid inhaler if he gets as ill as he was last summer. NB - a horse inhaler costs about £150 but a child's inhaler costs about £5 from any chemist. Not as good a fit but £150 for god's sake!!!!! If your horse is allergic to hay/dust you need to manage it very proactively. Change to haylage or soak the hay. No straw bedding. Stable away from the hay store/muck heap. Chronic exposure to the allergen will gradually damage more and more of the horse's lungs. PM me if I can help further x

 

[lucy007]

Sorry possibly slightly off original subject but.... how much for horse inhaler!

My mare has spaopd and has 3 different inhalers, the most expensive of which are around £50 each (still not cheap!) others are about 1/2 that. They are 'human' inhalers and I use a baby spacer to administer it. They last between 4 and 8 weeks at maintenance depending on the required dosage for each one.

 

[dapple2807]

Thanks so much for your reply box of frogs! Really helpful. Ive noticed his wee was cloudy today so I am changing his feed ASAP. he has gone onto spring grass now, and I would like him out as much as possible to aid his breathing so we will see how he gets on. He just feels very sluggish and im not sure if this is the liver or the COPD, I am thinking its probably the liver. If only the person i bought him from had told me all of this in the first place...people hey. Thanks goodness for his 'real' owner and all her help. His old owner had him on speedibeet, plain chaff and flat oats, so im thinking of going along this line as he really could do with some energy.

 

[brucea]

Dapple - my pony has COPD and I suspect compromised everything else - he is also chronic laminitic. The COPD did make him quite distressed, a bit like an astha attack for us I guess.

I use the UKNHCP recommended diet with him -- have a look on their forum no grains. Linseed which seems to help, beet, BY and Seaweed. The linseed acts as a mucilage, and has anti-inflamatory properties.

I steam his hay in two dustbins (he goes through 2 a day) it is relatively easy - pack dustbins with hay, pour in a boiling kettle in each, and close lid for 10 minutes. The steaming seems to adequately swell up the dust/pollen spores and he swallows, tather than breathes them. The remainin=g water runs off and I think takes much of it with it.

Inhaler - I got a pony inhaler from my vet for £95 - I can;t remember the type but PM me if you want me to take a picture and send it to you - happy to do so. I use salbutamol (ventolin) with that.

It is like a blown up version of a baby spacer - but takes a bit of patience and practice to use.

Herbs - I use powdered rosehip, coltsfoot, nettle, anise, cloves hand fed - all useful.

I would think twice about the Alfalfa none of my guys get on with it- the oats should be OK, but you can always consider the new approaches sprouting the soaked whole oats (Thunderbrook I think)

Here's my site http://www.4hooves.co.uk - I don't generally post it so keep it between us - Bramble's history is on there as well as some feeding advice and other things I hope you will find useful