Liver problems - prognosis?

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JillA

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The horse I mentioned on the other thread has really quite severe liver problems - went in for a biopsy and the liver was so small they struggled to find it. He is a lovely character, 18 year old Swedish WB, and no, it isn't ragwort poisoning. I know most of his history for the last 12 years, from expensive livery to my property and on to a loan home that is ragwort free.

Biopsy was unsuccessful because they didn't manage to get a sample, so he is on steroids and antibiotics (he has severe UV sensitivity as a result, with skin breaking down now). Loanee is doing all she can (mycosorb and milk thistle) but is really devastated, he is such a gentle soul, really I am asking if any of you have a positive prognosis from a similar condition? I know the liver can regenerate to a point but this sounds as though it has all but disappeared :(
 
My heart goes out to you, I have been where you have. On 14th Feb 2007 after around six months of treatment my girl was diagnosed with liver disease with serious liver damage. We were told to take her off all treatment and take her home and enjoy her. That was a sad time but move on to today 10 years on and she is still with us and is doing great. Looking at her she shows no signs of liver disease and her sensitivity to the sun has improved.
Its still there but on a daily basis she gets on with life and so do we.
There were times when we called time and thought that we needed to end this but Millie
wasn't ready and we always said Millie will tell us when to give up.
Hope this helps a bit to show that there is light at the end of a long very dark tunnel.
Good luck
 
My first pony had liver problems at the age of six, this was forty years ago and the vets advice was just rest. He recovered and lived to the age of 33.
 
Ive no idea if it would help, but it might be worth asking your vet about using Lactulose (we got it from boots after discussion with our vet, who said we had nothing to loose) from memory we fed 500ml a day in his feed.

Unfortunately we didnt have a good outcome, but he was an old man :(
 
^ Lactulose can be beneficial if the horse is showing neurological signs, as it helps 'mop up' the extra nitrogen in the intestinal tract that the liver is struggling with. Metronidazole can also help (I am assuming your horse may already be on this as the antibiotic?) as it gets rid of some of the bacteria responsible for making the nitrogen.

A liver biopsy would tell you an awful lot, there are options such as laparoscopic biopsy (using a scope through the flank), or even a ex-lap (opening up the abdomen) if you really want to know, but obviously they're both risky, invasive and require referral. If the liver is all tiny and fibrosed though I'd be inclined to be thinking it's more of a chronic end stage liver failure, rather than an acute hepatitis unfortunately :(
 
As per my recent post my loan mare's biopsy was done last week well a week and a half ago and it showed the liver was healing and her results were 1168 and my boys were 189.

We have no clue why they went up but I am practising what we did for the pony, which was change hay to haylage as micotoxins are not removed in 24 hr soaking. Ponies levels dropped from 169 to 65 in 6 weeks, mine are also on
milk thistle
legaphyton
and 4 sticks of licorice per day.
nettles

there ao many things good to help liver heal but i cannot post everything I found here so will send you a link

Are you sure it has shrunk and not just the vets found it hard to find as hidden behind the lungs??? I say this as my vets really struggled to find my horses liver prior to taking samples


Prof Derek Knottenbelt of Liverpool University is a world expert on liver disease in horses and will always respond to enquiries from lay horse owners. He's knotty@liverpool.ac.u

Also Teressa Holland



You don't want to give any oils or any straw base feed as it can cause brain fog in horses.

Reseives digesta for metabolic processing . Has an important function in detocifiying of indigestited potenticial hazadous substances resultiting in the horses natural grazing. Its therefore at risk from toxic damages during this time. Its a highly active organ its also at risk from airborn
infections
cirrhosis
excess fat deposits
neoplasma
These can all produce changes in the activity and output. These can be measure in the blood serum and plasma
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
As per my recent post my loan mare's biopsy was done last week well a week and a half ago and it showed the liver was healing and her results were 168 and my boys were 189.

We have no clue why they went up but I am practising what we did for the pony, which was change hay to haylage as micotoxins are not removed in 24 hr soaking. Ponies levels dropped from 169 to 65 in 6 weeks, mine are also on
milk thistle
legaphyton
and 4 sticks of licorice per day.
nettles

there ao many things good to help liver heal but i cannot post everything I found here so will send you a link

Are you sure it has shrunk and not just the vets found it hard to find as hidden behind the lungs??? I say this as my vets really struggled to find my horses liver prior to taking samples


Prof Derek Knottenbelt of Liverpool University is a world expert on liver disease in horses and will always respond to enquiries from lay horse owners. He's knotty@liverpool.ac.u

Also Teressa Holland



You don't want to give any oils or any straw base feed as it can cause brain fog in horses.

Reseives digesta for metabolic processing . Has an important function in detocifiying of indigestited potenticial hazadous substances resultiting in the horses natural grazing. Its therefore at risk from toxic damages during this time. Its a highly active organ its also at risk from airborn
infections
cirrhosis
excess fat deposits
neoplasma
These can all produce changes in the activity and output. These can be measure in the blood serum and plasma
Click to expand...


corrected to say 168 not over a thousand.

My geldings bloods showed higher levels of liver issue 189 so changed him too, vet coming tomorrow to retest but both horses are showing their old selves again. Gelding particularly has been very down, lethargic and not himself in the last 2 months.
 
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Sultan was diagnosed from blood tests. He had developed photosensitisation, not that we realised it was Burma initially . I can't remember exactly how old he was but it was late 20's. Vet said we could do a biopsy but it wouldn't actually change the prognosis or treatment but it would probably lead to loosing him. He went onto a high course of antibiotics. He died aged 38 from nothung other than old age. He did continue to suffer with photosensitisation, he wore turnout socks in the winter and fly chaps in the summer on his back legs that had socks as they would burn within 30mins out and he wore the peak of a baseball cap sewn into Althea nose and of a headcollor as he wouldn't keep a fly mask on. It apart from that he was treated normally.
 
Thanks everyone. I will update the thread as she updates me. It is early days yet but fingers crossed - why does it happen to the lovely kind characters.
 
At their highest my horses ggt was nearly 500. He had two biopsies which showed damage but also regeneration. He had initial treatment with veterinary liver support, antibiotics and steroids. His next treatment was trental and azathioprine. This worked for a while and he went downhill again. He always gets a very swollen smelly sheath with raised ggt. Vets decided a longer course of steroids and antibiotics may be worth a shot. He also had the liver support.
We have found through trial,error and someone feeding him black mouldy hay he is incredibly sensitive to toxins.
Touch wood, he's been fab for about three months. He has Mycosorb a+, milk thistle and organic beetroot juice. He is fed only clean feed, currently using thunderbrooks. He is back on hay but I use the cleanest hay. His buckets are scrubbed religiously with a really mild solution of hibiscrub rinsed well. I literally micromanage his environment to reduce/remove any chance of toxins.
In winter he will go onto forage blus winter essentials.
His ggt has never come back down to 40. It last sat at 78 but the vets are more than happy with that. He is now back in work and behaving like a tool. So he's feeling good. Six months ago he was refusing food and head pressing. For the greediest cob in the world to refuse food had me terrified.
The liver can be a right pain to get at. His first biopsy he had more incisions simply because it was difficult to get to.
There are lots of good papers online and I might still have some links if you would like them to read.
Good luck x
 
My boy's blood came back today and GGT have dropped from 189 to 184 in a week and a bit, so fingers crossed. The mare will be done in 3 weeks.
 
He's off pain relief because they were concerned about his liver having to process it and he is struggling with the damaged skin on his white legs where is all broke down due to the UV damage. His GGT was 125 so nowhere near as bad as some. He's on steroids for a month before they do bloods again, poor lad
 
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