Liver problems

[Bertolie]

Please bear with me as this might be long.

7 year old mare started head flicking back in the summer. Xrays of feet showed lateral medial imbalance in hinds and front left so had shoes put on. Head flicking got worse and at end of November was horrendous so referred to Langford for assessment. Mild/moderate lameness detected in left hind, worse on pushoff as opposed to impact. Mild lameness in front left. Bute trial started two weeks ago with her to be ridden as much as possible but if anything she was worse and tripping a lot with some dragging of hind feet.

Several people mentioned the possibility of PSSM so asked vets opinion and he decided to take bloods. Have just had the results and they are not good and showed liver enzymes are raised. GGT levels which are normally around 44, and vets get a bit worried if over 100, are over 500! Like an idiot I Googled it and above 400 usually has a poor prognosis.

She is to have antibiotics for two weeks, a liver fluke wormer, and something to help support the liver and retest bloods in six weeks.

Could this be the cause if her head flicking and lameness? Has anyone had similar test results? What was the problem and outcome? Does anyone have any good news stories of similar blood results?

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[iconique]

Firstly don't panic, if any organ in the body is to be affected, then the liver is a good one as its the only one that has any hope of re-generation. But this is if it isn't too damaged to start with.

We have an older mare, that several years ago (over 8) collapsed on the road (she simply dropped with me on her!) and it was the only real sign of an issue. Anyway after a lot of tests and much worry, she's still with us now. We have to be careful with her diet as it flares up again and you don't mention a low protein diet (we did happy hoof and micronised flaked maize for the highest quality protein we could get for her - and we still use it if we need weight gain).

Milk Thistle is also a common supporter of a repairing liver, although we didn't do the liver fluke wormer.
She trips a lot but we put this down to old age - she's now 28/9, interestingly she has a strange head motion when she's not good, its a bit like her doing small circles with her nose? She also goes very scatty!

There are several long term members on here that have a huge wealth of experience on this subject and I'm sure they will jump on later with some better advice.

Good luck and be patient with her as it will take some time to get better.

 

[BBP]

Second the ‘don’t panic’. My horse had GGT of over 800, up and down for several years but around that mark on several occasions. He is absolutely fine now, was never particularly unwell and is actually the best he has ever been.

I have known 3 other horses who have been similar. All are fine. My friends horses Vet completely freaked her out talking about the normal ranges, she was on the phone in tears though me thinking the horse was about to die, but the horse is fine now, she has just been a little quiet for a few months.

My horse also head flicks but his are seasonal allergies/headaches.

I can’t suggest what is wrong with your horse, just advise you not to panic.

 

[swilliam]

Our mini shetland had occasional lameness over a couple of months, and was sensitive in places on his body. The farrier thought he had laminitis and was surprised to find no sign. The vet came - on one of his good days of course, and couldn't think what it might be. She ran bloods and his ggt was over 500. He's been on a tonic for a few days and is back to his very naughty self, so it's not necessarily a disaster.

 

[missmatch]

Have you considered EMS? My cob had huge raised ggt levels,he was very unwell, each liver biopsy worse than the last. He has now been diagnosed with ems. There are a lot of ems horses with liver problems.
Ask your vet to check insulin and glucose levels, see what the values are?
Really though don’t panic over the liver. Low protein, low fat diet. Avoid oils, sugar etc - the liver has great potential to recover and function

 

[tallyho!]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't PSSM diagnosed with CK and AST. What is the marker in the liver?

 

[ester]

I'm going to cheat slightly because I think liphook do a really good summary of the various liver markers. - AST is non specific but usually raised with liver issues, as is GGT.

https://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Lab-Book-Liver-Disease.pdf

OP don't panic wait and see what happens at this stage.

I have some vague recollection of liver stuff and headshaking but can't remember where or whether it was a good source. I'm trying to remember if it was linked to light sensitivity.

It is interesting that people point out a possible link with EMS as I suspect my own is either EMS/IR these days though the liver through up first (but also interestingly at the same time as his work had been reduced for some time/he then semi retired).
Bertolie Frank's levels weren't as high but he came with a very burnt nose in late october. He had a couple of weeks of tonic which made no measurable difference and has been monitored since (been fine in himself), fed milkthistle seed and always wearing a nose cover. 18 months later for the first time his levels are nearly back to normal. - we didn't biopsy because he was so well in himself.

 

[Bertolie]

She's vet well in herself as long as she's not ridden! She is fat though our attempts to get some weight off are hindered by the lack of exercise. Her problems started back in the summer and EMS was mentioned but because of the other issues we were presented with it was decided to get the head flicking diagnosed first, which showed up the lameness, which eventually showed up the liver problems! I'm not sure if all these things are related or she just has a long list of problems that are coming to light the more we dig around.

I picked up around £500 of medication and supplements tonight....and the baggage wouldn't touch it! I'm going to have to feed each thing separately to see what she doesnt like. Might have to think about giving her a hard feed to disguise the meds as its imperative she has these before we repeat the blood tests in 7 weeks.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Please bear with me as this might be long.

7 year old mare started head flicking back in the summer. Xrays of feet showed lateral medial imbalance in hinds and front left so had shoes put on. Head flicking got worse and at end of November was horrendous so referred to Langford for assessment. Mild/moderate lameness detected in left hind, worse on pushoff as opposed to impact. Mild lameness in front left. Bute trial started two weeks ago with her to be ridden as much as possible but if anything she was worse and tripping a lot with some dragging of hind feet.

Several people mentioned the possibility of PSSM so asked vets opinion and he decided to take bloods. Have just had the results and they are not good and showed liver enzymes are raised. GGT levels which are normally around 44, and vets get a bit worried if over 100, are over 500! Like an idiot I Googled it and above 400 usually has a poor prognosis.

She is to have antibiotics for two weeks, a liver fluke wormer, and something to help support the liver and retest bloods in six weeks.

Could this be the cause if her head flicking and lameness? Has anyone had similar test results? What was the problem and outcome? Does anyone have any good news stories of similar blood results?

Sorry for all the questions!

I my horses liver enzymes are normal again after the highest one was 168 you may find many horses have raised enzymes but symptoms go noticed as they are minor.

At least you have the bloods - but try ascertain what could be causing this raised GGT

My horses was down to bad hay, from a farmer who I don't use now.


give the Liver some support while waiting for a retest things like

I have used
Legaphyton (from vets)
milk thistle
yea sac
nettles
other things good for the liver is

dandelion root
licorice
lemon juice

Don't detox with enzymes that high unless clearance from the vet.

Feed a very low protein diet
What protein your horse does have (he will need SOME protein!) should be the very highest quality you can afford as this will mean less work for the liver
Feed little and often as this is less work for the liver than big blasts

Keep an eye on the horse going worst like,

intermittent abdominal pain
loss of appetite
depression
lethargy
increase heart rate
low grade impaction
weight loss
yawning
jaundice
photosensitsation
ataxia
behavioral changes
ventral odema
altered blood clotting
occasional diarrhea
odemas edemas

Keep us posted