Livery costs - opinions please

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Zippydoodles

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Settle yourselves down for this one, its a bit of an epistle (for which I apologise but hey). I'd like opinions and advice on the livery yard I am at at the moment. I moved to it in November 09 when it first opened and up to now things have gone fairly well. Everyone gets on well and the horses are settled. However. DIY livery is £35 a week in winter. This includes haylage/ straw and turnout most days. It also includes use of the tackroom/kitchen/toilet (only just finished but still no tacklockers in place and no secure door, limited storage space (being extended), use of a rug drying room (again not yet secure and does not have heaters installed yet, use of the xc course (can you guess...not yet installed). I knew it was still under completion when I moved but it has taken much longer than YO said to get it to this stage. The fencing is good, there is plenty of turnout and the stables themselves are excellent, unlike my previous yard, which is why I was prepared to move before it was completely finished. I had asked about summer livery before I moved as Zippy is usually out 24/7 in summer and was told this would probably be £15 a week. Oh good I thought (stupid fool) when I confirmed this with him earlier this week he said he hadn't really thought about it but thought between £15 & £20 a week. This was still ok with me but last night he sent me an email saying grass livery would be £22.50 a week and meant just that: grass only, no use of tackroom/kitchen/toilet, stable (not even for tacking up), hosepipe for washing down,xc course, off road hacking and if he found some one else who wanted DIY all year round for £35 he would give up your stable, which would leave you out on your ear as he doesnt offer 24/7 turnout in winter. Essentially it comes across as a thinly veiled threat about how uncomfortable it could be if you're not willing to pay full whack all year.

A huge muffin and/or glass of wine for anyone who has made it this far without nodding off!!
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Can I have peoples opinion on this please - what should I do as I think he is being a bit cheeky expecting full price when no bedding or haylage will be used and no muck shifting/ fetching & carrying on his part, its not something Ive come across before in this area (wensleydale) I dont have a lot of options as far as moving goes so I wonder if anyone has negotiating tips?I would be interested in arguments from both sides.
Apologies once again for my inane rambling and ranting
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The thing that would worry me is potential loss of stable. I pay £37 for diy. (down south) but is the same all year round. Can do 24/7 grass in summer but no reduction. Hay and straw are extra but again if you buy from yard you pay all year. Thing is if he has to keep empty stable while you are paying less he is losing out. He obviously hadn't thought it through in the first place.
 
kind of sounds similar to my old yard i was on diy for £38 pw and it was same situation 24hr turnout in summer but same price all the time.
luckily i found somewhere for £20 pw a private yard, cheap livery in exchange for me occasionaly doing the horses. put an add in your local paper i was inundated with folk offering similar to my current situation. x
 
I'm afraid that my response is not what you are going to want to hear but here goes...

I have a livery yard and clients who want to turn out 24/7 in the summer are welcome to do so but they pay the same as they would in the winter, £24 a week. They retain their stable and access to all facilities and it is their choice how much they use them. I couldn't afford to charge a much lower amount for grass livery and be expected to keep the stable empty over the summer and our liveries are committed to being here and don't try to "do it on the cheap" by switching from DIY to grass and back again.

Where I do think you have a point is that you would not be using any hayledge or bedding and so you might expect a reduction. However, I think £35 a week for a stable, turnout and hayledge and bedding is a very low amount and it may be that the yard owner is realising that he can't run a legitimate, insured and properly managed yard on those rates. I couldn't, put simply. Perhaps this is behind the slow development of the facilities because, believe me, it is very, very difficult to make money from livery.

Apologies if that's not what you want to hear, but a reduction for feed and bedding might be in order but beyond that I think you should pay to keep your stable and then turn out 24/7 if you choose.
 
Have you asked weather you loose use of all the other facilities.. usuallyw hen a horse is on grass livery through the summer then you only use the use of your stable i thought???

Also.. £35 for all your winter benefits sounds very reasonable?

Lou x
 
T be honest It sounds like you have got some excellent facilities on there way at a really good price.

It does sound like this chap isn't really sure what he is doing though and making up the arrangements as he goes along. he has probably reaslised that there are people out there who will pay to stable thier horse all year round and he will loose money if he retains them for people who only pay grass livery.


There are 3 yards close to me. 1 you pay £40 per week for a stabled horse (including hay and straw) 20 per week for grass and £25 through the summer if you want to retain a stable. (no hay and straw for this cost)

Facilities are crap. 1 down the road is £40 all year round.

It's hit and miss. If you are not happy and there is no sign of and of the promised facilities happening - move. Otherwise £35 all year round for that sounds pretty good value where I come from! good luck
 
Cant you convince him that will have problems doing it that way and that he could set a charge for hay and straw separate and have a set price for stable. Most yards ive been on where you have to have their hay and straw have charged for stable - say £25 a week all year round then whenever you need hay and straw had a weekly price for this too. Makes alot more sense as more likely to have a full yard then rather than unhappy people who move after a month or so.
 
Yes we lose all facilities except grazing, I have only ever lost use of stable over summer before, not tackroom etc.
Measles thanks for your reply, its good to hear the reasoning from both sides.
I do think £35 in winter is good (when its all finished!!) I just think its a bit sneaky of him to not mention that grass livery would involve loss of all facilities until now. Whilst I recognise fully that running a good business is not cheap I also explained that I was on a tight budget myself and would be paying more than I had in the past but was willing to pay the extra in winter as was cheaper in summer. Hmm will have to ponder a bit more but thanks everyone for your feedback : )
 
grass doesnt grow for nothing!!! (fertilizer, lime spray rolling harrowing fencing water!!!!!!) what you gain on the swings you loose on the roundabouts!
 
I actually cant understna dht loss of all facilities, sure I wouldnt expect a stable (even for tacking up in) but would expect access to tackroom (if you wished to use it - in Ireland usually most people bring tack and rugs home every night). Most of all, not allowing use of cross country course is the one that would bother me the most. £35 is certainly v reasonable but I wouldt think £22.50 wihout use of any facilities(even water?!) isnt great. Is there an arean? Good hacking?
 
I charge £30 a week DIY livery all year round plus in winter the DIYs pay for their own haylage and bedding. In summer horses are out 24/7 so no expense for bedding and haylage unless they want to. In winter they are in at night. i won;t do grass livery at all because people on grass livery want all the same facilities as DIY's except for the use of the stable. And yet if their horse is ill the want a stable to keep it in. Every horse on my yard has it's own stable. In summer I have to spend hours harrowing, topping, poopicking, fence repairing, jump repairing, hedge trimming, haylage making, repairing stables, weedkilling, muck spreading. Basically ensuring all the facilities which are enjoyed are kept in a good state of repair. So it costs me far more in summer to maintain the facilities than it does in winter, I need to have a certain amount of income to keep the yard running and in summer how much more water is needed for drinking and endless baths for horses. the cost has to be worked out over a full 12 months to establish what it actually costs. So I think that the YO is actually being extremely cheap at £35 including bedding and hay and very generous allowing it cheaper in summer
 
I would say its fairly standard practice.

My yard is a flat fee of £33.50 for stable and haylage in winter, and the same for any combination of stable/grazing/haylage in summer. As one poster said before, grass costs to keep good and the charge reflects the work that goes in.

We pay seperately for bedding which means we save in summer. I also pay half price for the full livery element of my bill to reflect the reduction in work, but he's checked daily and brought in for me and whatever else he needs.
 
Sorry I am with your YO - it is unfair on him and the other liveries for you to swop and change from grass to stable livery. If it happend on my yard I would be well annoyed.

Now if you want to start on the hay/straw thing - i should be really careful as if you start comparing too much you may end up on a looser as he may start to charge per horse size and usage.

I would personally pay the £35 per week and think i was extreamly lucky - how about the last month - if your horses were stood in eating their heads off - you would probably be the first to complain if he asked for a price hike to cover the extra.

If i work out for my smallest horse a weekly charge just in the last week i have spent - £20 grazing and stable, 2 bales of straw @ £3.00 each and 6 bales of hay @ £4.00 each = £51.00... whats your yard owners number - may be moving 3 their very shortly !
 
My pony lives out all year. There are two groups those that live out all year in the far fields and those that come in at night all year who are in the nearer fields.

I pay £135 in the summer and £165 in the winter (winter rate includes hay in the fields) Living in horses pay £135 all year round and then they buy their own hay and bedding and pay for what they use.

Everyone has to have their own stable regardless of living in or out - I mainly use my stable for storage and putting my pony in I want to give him some extra hay or need to wait for farrier or vet.

I think £35 a week including hay and bedding is a very good deal - perhaps he has worked this out based on people using less in summer.

I imagine that with the bad weather this may have restricted some of the work he may have been planing to do - after all building in x country course when there is loads of snow may be tricky!
 
Sounds cheap to me at my last yard DIY was £38 which was box, grazing and use of facilities. No hay or bedding. Although you dont mention any schooling facilities which usually brings the price down. Hay prices here are £3.75 - £5.00 a bale not sure on straw but shavings £8.00 a bale. It would cost me between £25 and £30 a week to feed (forage) and bed my horse through the winter alone. I find it hard to believe people can actually make a living at these prices.

But then I do live down South where everything is expensive.
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I can't see why you are upset, YO is running a business and he ain't going to get rich on £35 a week, which, fwiw isn't a hell of a lot for a nice yard incl. hay/straw - i'd imagine he bearly breaks even over the winter.
In your shoes I'd pay full DIY rates all year around and just turn out 24/7 for convenience in the summer.
 
Ok, I pay £49 per week per horse. This includes a field, a stable and haylage and the use of a school and horse walker. I pay this regardless of if they are out 24/7 in the summer or not. My YO will not let us haylage the fields in the summer or winter, so if you want to give them a net in the summer you have to bring them in to do so.

Our school is horrific, very deep and unlevel, harrowed if lucky once a week. The walker freezes in freezing temperatures so cannot use then or when snowy/icy. Our fields are not treated - harrowed/fertilised or sprayed and they are only an acre each, so if they get over grazed that's your only one.

To have livery which includes what you have I'd be biting his hand off, I think that you need to be careful as others have said about bringing too many things up as he might increase all of the amounts.

I do however think that it is strange about not using the facilities but then he seems very new to it. even at a previous yard we would pay £30 for just stable and field and then £15 for the school per week, but we were allowed to use the tack room and storage!!
 
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