Livery musing...

[LiffWee93]

Why is it that there are hardly any diy yards anymore, there's probably about 4 in my area, all mostly full, or have crap atmospheres/yo / facilities...
The rest are all ridiculously expensive part or full livery...

Thinking about moving my ponies to an actual yard with facilities, but not having much luck...

As with everyone, I'd love a little yard with just a few people and a nice enough school, storage and reasonable hacking, that doesn't cost the earth!!
Sigh
Hopefully by next winter somewhere will come up

 

[be positive]

Why is it that there are hardly any diy yards anymore, there's probably about 4 in my area, all mostly full, or have crap atmospheres/yo / facilities...
The rest are all ridiculously expensive part or full livery...

Thinking about moving my ponies to an actual yard with facilities, but not having much luck...

As with everyone, I'd love a little yard with just a few people and a nice enough school, storage and reasonable hacking, that doesn't cost the earth!!
Sigh
Hopefully by next winter somewhere will come up

Probably because they cannot provide a stable, nice school, decent turnout etc at the price people are prepared to pay, high property prices in Hampshire will dictate how much or little the yard needs to charge to cover outgoings, part or full bring in a bit more profit, most places will barely cover themselves if they do DIY, I suspect in many areas DIY will become less available or prices will rise to a more realistic rate.

 

[shadowboy]

Because DIY doesn't bring in much income. £25 per week is rounded about £110 a month. But you have to deduct electricity/water/paddock maintainance/insurance/business rates(quite expensive)/arena maintainance etc- I've been told that to work out costs by a YO friend you need to subtract roughly 30% of what you are paid from a a 1-15 box yard and roughly 23% for a 16-30 box yard. So let's assume a small 10 box yard that's £1100 a month- 30% so £670 a month- that's not an income you can live off! And assumes no rent or mortgage on the land!

 

[AdorableAlice]

Probably because they cannot provide a stable, nice school, decent turnout etc at the price people are prepared to pay, high property prices in Hampshire will dictate how much or little the yard needs to charge to cover outgoings, part or full bring in a bit more profit, most places will barely cover themselves if they do DIY, I suspect in many areas DIY will become less available or prices will rise to a more realistic rate.

Spot on and sadly it is DIY liveries that are often their own worst enemy in terms of behaviour and horsemanship. Never ever again for me, the heartbreak they caused me was soul destroying and their stupidity caused a horse career ending injury that cost thousands.

 

[jules9203]

I've a small yard with 8 boxes. I charge a reasonable amount for DIY with ad lib hay, school and all year turnout. When I added up the rent, skip hire (for the muck heap) the cost of good hay, electric, water, yard and land maintenance etc the yard made a substantial loss each year. I have had to replace some DIY with part and full livery purely to make the yard earn a small profit. Financially it didn't work.

 

[wills_91]

Nearly every yard in my area is purely DIY. I am moving from one this week as I now need turnout mucking out done a few days a week and I'd rather pay than try to come to some sort of arrangement with a fellow diy'er. It's been a great yard everyone happy, every horse is happy and I'll be sad to go.

 

[Orca]

I'm on a DIY yard with A* facilities, great atmosphere, great horsewomen and cheap livery (not cheap for my area but cheap countrywide). It's the only one with such facilities for miles around. I know my YO is making little to nothing and I'm beyond grateful to have a place there.

It's so sad that some DIYers have ruined the experience for some YOs because when someone is sharing their land, facilities, stabling and experience for little reason other than the goodness of their heart, it's a thing to be greatly appreciated.

Good luck in your search, OP because yards like this really are like hens teeth in some areas.

 

[ihatework]

Probably because many DIYer won't pay what it actually costs to provide good facilities

 

[Deltaflyer]

Round where I live most of the small DIY yards are now tracts of rabbit hutch sized houses.

 

[chocolategirl]

Would agree with all the other posters on here. I run a DIY yard and can honestly say I work at a loss on the livery side, it's only the sale of hay etc that allows me to carry on. It's a lifestyle choice for most YO's, NOT a 'job'. I should have packed up long ago as to be frank, for all the hassle it causes (particularly this winter!!) it really isn't worth it but I think deep down I'm a bit of a masochist lol!

 

[Dubsie]

Round where I live most of the small DIY yards are now tracts of rabbit hutch sized houses.

Same here! All the ones that are on the edge of town have gone. Where we are is OK, has everything bar a decent school, some are distinctly lacking in turnout which is a no for us

 

[FfionWinnie]

Do you also post on FB looking for new condition horse items that must be cheap or free OP

You get what you pay for, at the end of the day.

 

[VikingSong]

Do you also post on FB looking for new condition horse items that must be cheap or free OP

You get what you pay for, at the end of the day.

If I didn't keep mine at home with me then I'd have them on DIY livery. I have plenty of free time these days to look after my own, so there would be no need for me to have them on part/full livery. It's certainly nothing to do with being a cheapskate. A few of my friends keep theirs on DIY for the same reason I mentioned above.

That said, I am surprised at how little DIY liveries charge. If I had a yard that was offering stable, decent turnout and use of indoor school or/and ménage and any other amenities, I would definitely be charging more than £25 a week. I've never understood why they charge so little (unless it's an absolute dump).

 

[LiffWee93]

Hahaa, no I'm perfectly happy to.pay what I need to
However, I don't have 500pcm + for two horses to put them on even the most basic part livery yard in my area!

Though I can totally see the financial side of it... It's difficult :/
Starting to think I should work with horses just to take my horses with me to a yard so I can have facilities!
But, at least they are happy, healthy, have a roof over their heads when they want it and can get muddy when they want to.. summer is round the corner *wishful thinking*

 

[pixie]

You can really only charge the going rate for an area. So if there are yards charging £15/£20/week then people will expect all yards in the area to charge the same. So places that don't insure/pay business rates etc will be able to charge less. A lot of people don't see the time and money that goes into good maintenance. They just see similar facilities on paper and judge it that way.

 

[Goldenstar]

Because there's not enough income in it because the hassle is awful and there's demand for full and assisted livery which means the YMer can ensure the horses are cared for to a standard .

 

[fatpiggy]

I'm really quite surprised to see that there doesn't seem to be a north-south divide in DIY livery costs. I can understand that really rural places might be cheaper, but I was paying £30 on the Cheshire/Manchester boundary 2 years ago and it had just gone up from £25 because a sand school had been built. That was the only facility there, although we did have reasonable all-year turn out (just too many horses per acre). I would have thought it would have been way more expensive "down south".

 

[Wagtail]

I did start off with a couple of DIY liveries. But I charged £40 a week and could have filled the place twice over. However, even at that rate there was zero profit in it and when they left I replaced with part liveries. I would never do DIY again. The only time it would be worth doing is if you have a farm and grow your own hay and straw to sell back to the liveries.

 

[FfionWinnie]

If I didn't keep mine at home with me then I'd have them on DIY livery. I have plenty of free time these days to look after my own, so there would be no need for me to have them on part/full livery. It's certainly nothing to do with being a cheapskate. A few of my friends keep theirs on DIY for the same reason I mentioned above.

That said, I am surprised at how little DIY liveries charge. If I had a yard that was offering stable, decent turnout and use of indoor school or/and ménage and any other amenities, I would definitely be charging more than £25 a week. I've never understood why they charge so little (unless it's an absolute dump).

Think you missed my point.
On one hand the OP is complaining there are no decent DIY yards she can afford on the other she is saying that any DIY yard she can afford is badly run.

Running a decent yard costs money. If you want a cheaper option you have to make sacrifices.

I keep mine at home and I tell myself how it doesn't cost me much to have 6 horses because they are at home. However the reality is I have a mortgage on the home and land which allows me to keep them here so if it were worked out correctly, it wouldn't be the cheap option my head likes to think it is either.

Keeping horses is not cheap and that's the bottom line. If you want to do it properly it costs money and if you want a well run yard that also costs money.

I briefly had my mare on a well run DIY yard and it cost me £240 per month with unlimited hay or haylage included. That included a big arena, excellent hacking, lovely boxes, a tackroom (which I didn't use myself) and an excellent atmosphere. I thought it was cheap to be honest and only had to bring her home as she was diagnosed with a disorder which meant she can't be stabled. That's only £7.90 a day. If I factor in the specialised turnout area, shelter and hay plus a proportion of my mortgage for the first year it's cost me £32 a day to keep her at home!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Why is it that there are hardly any diy yards anymore, there's probably about 4 in my area, all mostly full, or have crap atmospheres/yo / facilities...
The rest are all ridiculously expensive part or full livery...

Thinking about moving my ponies to an actual yard with facilities, but not having much luck...

As with everyone, I'd love a little yard with just a few people and a nice enough school, storage and reasonable hacking, that doesn't cost the earth!!
Sigh
Hopefully by next winter somewhere will come up

I find there is no profit in grass livery and not much with DIY, so I would suggest yards are finding diy not profitable when they can rent the stable to a part for more money.

 

[marmalade76]

Would agree with all the other posters on here. I run a DIY yard and can honestly say I work at a loss on the livery side, it's only the sale of hay etc that allows me to carry on. It's a lifestyle choice for most YO's, NOT a 'job'.

Agree, I don't think anyone should go into DIY livery expecting to make a living out of it, it's just not possible. Treat it like a bit of money to help maintain the place/help pay for your own horses but that's about it. But there can be a problem with the customers here, some have the attitude that they pay (no matter how paltry this amount may be) and therefore they are entitled to this, that and the other. These people need to be more grateful and respectful.

Mind you, if like a yard near me, you have the property mortgage free and do it on a huge scale (40 boxes), you probably can live off it. Plus this YO does not provide storage for large amounts of hay for his liveries. He buys all his hay from us, keeps it in a locked barn and sells it out to the liveries with a mark up of at least a pound on every bale, without lifting a finger! That's the way to do it if you want to make it pay.

 

[marmalade76]

Think you missed my point.
On one hand the OP is complaining there are no decent DIY yards she can afford on the other she is saying that any DIY yard she can afford is badly run.

Running a decent yard costs money. If you want a cheaper option you have to make sacrifices.

I keep mine at home and I tell myself how it doesn't cost me much to have 6 horses because they are at home. However the reality is I have a mortgage on the home and land which allows me to keep them here so if it were worked out correctly, it wouldn't be the cheap option my head likes to think it is either.

Keeping horses is not cheap and that's the bottom line. If you want to do it properly it costs money and if you want a well run yard that also costs money.

I briefly had my mare on a well run DIY yard and it cost me £240 per month with unlimited hay or haylage included. That included a big arena, excellent hacking, lovely boxes, a tackroom (which I didn't use myself) and an excellent atmosphere. I thought it was cheap to be honest and only had to bring her home as she was diagnosed with a disorder which meant she can't be stabled. That's only £7.90 a day. If I factor in the specialised turnout area, shelter and hay plus a proportion of my mortgage for the first year it's cost me £32 a day to keep her at home!

Ah, but you are investing your money! Eventually you will pay that mortgage off and will have a valuable asset that will continue to go up in value that is all yours so not the same at all.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Ah, but you are investing your money! Eventually you will pay that mortgage off and will have a valuable asset that will continue to go up in value that is all yours so not the same at all.

I'm not doing that well today am I. I was trying to make the point that the DIY yard has costs such as the mortgage or previous mortgage to provide the facilities in the first place, among other things which rip the backside out of any perceived profit from "over charging".

I could have a smaller house I'd already paid off so no mortgage and keep her on a nice yard and be better off financially to be able to save for the future. Ultimately yes it will be mine but then what I'll be old so have to sell it and live off the proceeds. It's all swings and roundabouts however you look at it.

 

[booandellie]

I run a very small diy livery from home, i charge £30 a week which includes 1 turnout or bring in per day. Hay and bedding are brought in and i arrange deliveries but don't add any extra. There is good hacking, a grass school and daily turnout in post and rail fenced field, CCTV and field hardstanding. Every year i spend money making improvements so we don't make any profit, it just contributes to our rent but whenever i have a vacancy people think i am charging too much and expect their hay to be included. They have no idea how much it costs to keep the place in good repair but i have found the ones that won't pay that end up down the road prefering to pay £20 a week in badly fenced fields, restricted winter turnout and no proper lighting. You get what you pay for!

 

[Goldenstar]

A buisness should cover the costs of the infrastructure it uses that including paying the borrowing a buisiness has to incur .
Livery owners ought to factor this cost into what they charge the reality is very often it is not .
The last time I had a horse briefly in livery I was paying £140 per week £20 a day that was so cheap when I looked at what it costs to build a huge indoor an outdoor a covered horse walker timber fenceing carparks etc etc .
One of friends does DIY on a farm it's just short of £50 per week for stable hay straw turnout almost all year they restrict in the worse weather a sand school and access to 1200 acres of great hacking all horse friendly gates I think that's good value .

 

[chestnut cob]

Why is it that there are hardly any diy yards anymore, there's probably about 4 in my area, all mostly full, or have crap atmospheres/yo / facilities...
The rest are all ridiculously expensive part or full livery...

Thinking about moving my ponies to an actual yard with facilities, but not having much luck...

As with everyone, I'd love a little yard with just a few people and a nice enough school, storage and reasonable hacking, that doesn't cost the earth!!
Sigh
Hopefully by next winter somewhere will come up

I am yard hunting and need full livery, which I'm prepared to pay for. Everything around here is DIY! I'm having a nightmare finding a proper full livery yard with decent turnout. It seems you can have FL with turnout on a postage stamp twice the size of your stable, or lovely grazing/ TO but complete DIY, no services offered at all.

 

[Wagtail]

I am yard hunting and need full livery, which I'm prepared to pay for. Everything around here is DIY! I'm having a nightmare finding a proper full livery yard with decent turnout. It seems you can have FL with turnout on a postage stamp twice the size of your stable, or lovely grazing/ TO but complete DIY, no services offered at all.

Could you go to one of the DIY yards and advertise for a PT groom?

 

[stormox]

DIY yards are more hassle than they'r worth- messy liveries, know-nothing owners that haven't a clue about horses and get stroppy when you try to help, people turning up at all times of day and night, bringing their horse in and leaving another alone in the field to break fences/get injured, people expecting you to give their horse a good reference when you know theyr selling coz its a little git.....

 

[chestnut cob]

Could you go to one of the DIY yards and advertise for a PT groom?

Having seen the nightmare my current YO (who is closing down due to hassle!) has with grooms, I'd rather not employ someone if it can be avoided. Would much prefer to pay a decent price for a FL yard with good facilities, someone I can trust to look after my horse (I am out of the UK a lot with work, so need someone who won't take the mick when I'm not around), and not worry. Have seen YO's problems with people who are great on paper but don't turn up, are flaky, start off well but end up being lazy, doing a bad job, etc etc... I'm getting to the stage where I would almost rather sell or loan out the horse to avoid having to keep him at the yards around this area! :/

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Could you go to one of the DIY yards and advertise for a PT groom?

I have 3 diy only and two of them ( mother and daughter) cover me and help me for reduced rate. I like to keep everything in house no outside employed