Livery Novice- Schooling livery AIBU

[rara007]

Morning!

I am fortunate that all my adult life I've been able to keep my horses at my parents, other than specific stints for training/breaking etc. So I am very aware I am a novice at this kind of thing! I have a new young horse who I kept for 2 months in Holland on a driving yard and is now back in the UK. I decided to put him on a dressage training yard as he's very green to ride (plus spent the summer driving) and I want his early ridden education to be positive and encourage him to keep his loose action and way of going. He's a sweet horse just genuinely not got many miles under his belt as far as I can tell, and has so much movement he struggles with his own balance let alone a riders.

He's on a training livery contract where he is supposed to be worked 4 times a week and will have been there 2 weeks tomorrow. I do want to be included in his training having a lesson a week approx rather than them working him that day but the exact logistics of this havn't been discussed, I mentioned it when I viewed the yard. They've not ridden him yet (plenty of lunging I believe) as they are not happy with his saddle. I changed the saddle that was with him to my other horses which I've ridden him twice in there but I'm not sure if they've looked at this one or not. I've ridden when the yard has not been around- partly as he's so green (think backed but not ridden away yet) you do really want an empty arena, partly as I'm so used to not being on a yard I don't want or like spectators and partly just due to the logistics of working full time and having 2 other horses in work and this yard being the best part of an hour from home. We have the saddler this afternoon so hopefully we can all then be happy with the saddle.

I feel they're being reluctant to get stuck in, and since him being there I've seen a few flags online which makes me think maybe they are not as confident/competent as I was hoping/expecting and am also paying for. I'm expecting once this saddle is sorted they're going to again be trying to book me in for a lesson (before they were unhappy with the saddle they were pushing for me to have the first ride), but really I want them to take charge and bring him on for me for the next few months, with that as priority over me riding. I'm a bit heavy, a bit nervy and very unfit! The aim is the driving, but that I can also ride him, rather than the other way round.

Is this unreasonable?! Maybe I understated how green he is, or maybe they are about to get cracking once saddle sorted and I've made an issue of nothing, but I'm already getting anxious about them asking when I want a lesson now. I don't mind riding him but I want them to do the bulk and get him going, it's why he's there..!

 

[ihatework]

Id give them the benefit of the doubt until saddle sorted.
I'd try and get there to watch them schooling as much as possible (and tell them this) and say you will start having lessons in a month or so.

So I wouldn't panic, yet, its early days. But equally lay down your expectations now

 

[tda]

Yes I think you need to have another discussion with them about how you are hoping / expecting this to proceed.

 

[paddy555]

are they expecting you, a more nervous and less experienced rider, to ride a green horse to demonstrate it is safe for the professionals who are going to train it and get paid for doing so

shouldn't they be riding him whilst you are present to demonstrate their expertise at training a youngster and then making sure he is trained and safe for his owner to have lessons on.

 

[9tails]

Communication seems a bit wishy-washy on both sides. What does "worked 4 times a week" consist of? Does a whiz around the lunge constitute a day's work? If so, sign me up, I want to be a horse!

You mentioned a lesson when viewing, the logistics haven't been discussed, nor does it seem the logistics of the entire training programme have been discussed. It may seem that you've dropped off the horse and not taken much interest, there needs to be communication and not second guessing what they've done or not done or will do or won't do.

The saddle doesn't seem to fit, which any good training yard wouldn't use so they don't give the horse a bad start.

 

[Ambers Echo]

As IHW says, it's a bit early to tell. But I would be clear now that he is there to be educated correctly, as he is only just backed and ridden away, and so you want his buttons installing before you ride. Not because you are scared but because you don;t want to confuse him as he is learning! And that you will ride later down the line. Then ask to see a plan of work for him so you can make sure they aren;t just lunging him. Lunging really isn't that useful at all.

 

[Patterdale]

Most professional yards have a large selection of saddles and find something to fit. They also tend to hit the ground running and get on with the horse, so that it can leave and the next one wanting it’s stable can arrive.

This all sounds really odd from a professional yard tbh. What are the red flags you’ve seen?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’d be very wary.

You are paying for a service. I’d want to know exactly what they are doing with him. IME of pros taking in horses to bring on you’ll be lucky if they sit on it for more than 20 mins a time 4 or 5 days a week.

I went down one day and the (highly recommended) pro was bitterly complaining that one of the horses in for schooling (not mine) had been ‘difficult’ and she’d had to ride him for a whole 40 minutes, which had thrown her day out.

 

[rara007]

He's bloody good at lunging too as that's what he did plenty of at the driving yard! That's a good way of phrasing it AE. I might be a bit tight on time after the saddler depending on how long that takes as working this evening but at least I have a plan clear in my head and can speak to them asap. Anything I've had at training before has been a drop it off and come back in X weeks to see progress arrangement.

 

[ester]

You’re probably better at lunging/long reining than them anyway…

 

[Pinkvboots]

I wouldn't expect a pro yard to expect me to get on the horse first tbh never heard of that, and I know quite a few people that take horses for schooling livery and know alot that have sent them including myself.

I would give it a while longer in regards to the saddle but after that I would find someone else.

 

[IrishMilo]

It's not unreasonable for them to not want to ride him in an iffy saddle but the communication sounds poor on both sides. You want to be dropping the horse off with a clear idea of what he's going to be doing and when. I see loads of people doing schooling livery now who are seriously just not cut out to be educating young or green horses - I really think social media and the influencer type culture has made it easier than back 15/20 years ago when it was all done from recommendations and word of mouth!

I assume you're paying a hefty sum to have him there so there's no way I'd be letting them take the pi$$ with it.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I had a showjumper who suddenly started putting in a nasty stop at some fences. He did it at one show & I was sitting next to Ted Edgar. I asked him what I should do as this man had forgotten more than most people ever knew. He said you shouldn't do anything, he needs taking to a pro showjumper & he'll sort him out. I mentioned one I knew well & he said take him to him fore a week & leave him to sort him out. I did this & we picked him up a week later & he never stopped at another fence. This was about 15 years ago. When I saw Ted again he asked how things had gone & I told him & he said I knew that guy would sort him out & he would do it kindly. OMG Ted really knew horses RIP Ted,
Look at this video & you'll see Ted jumping The Hickstead Derby with a broken arm, what a man.

#TBT: That Time Ted Edgar Jumped the Hickstead Derby with a Broken Arm

Show jumping legend Ted Edgar has been heralded as a larger-than-life character, an innovator ahead of his time and a gifted horseman. He’s also a straight-up bad a**. A leading jockey in the 50s, 60s and 70s, Edgar captured the King George V Gold Cup in 1969 and twice won the leading Showjumper...

horsenetwork.com

 

[SEL]

I have to confess most pro yards I know would have got the shims out, sorted a saddle that fitted and cracked on.

I also think you are experienced enough that if you are feeling something isn't quite right it probably isn't!!

 

[humblepie]

Agree as to a plan with regular updates to you of what they are doing and that you can go and watch him being schooled. I can imagine a yard may not want people turning up every day and seeking to micro-manage but it would be reasonable for the owner to go and see how the horse is progressing, whilst of course at the same time checking you are happy with what is going on and the progress being made. I haven't had a horse sent for schooling livery but when I had a horse at a pro-yard I could turn up any time to see him. It may be that he was being ridden, groomed, in the stable, in the field that was my pot luck as it were.

 

[rara007]

We have a new saddle And YO and YM both helped me riding him so they’ve seen him go now. They were a good help to be fair. He’s super sweet but super green especially with an amateur. I’m sure he’d do a lovely sales video with a pro..! We have a plan for tomorrow (lunging in the saddle..!), I’m doing Saturday, he’s off Sunday. I’m going to ask YO directly tonight if/when she’s going to ride- didn’t get a chance in RL. There’s another rider based on the yard I’d happily pay to get him started but I’m not paying both!
Very excited about him Once we get going..!

 

[Birker2020]

I had a showjumper who suddenly started putting in a nasty stop at some fences. He did it at one show & I was sitting next to Ted Edgar. I asked him what I should do as this man had forgotten more than most people ever knew. He said you shouldn't do anything, he needs taking to a pro showjumper & he'll sort him out. I mentioned one I knew well & he said take him to him fore a week & leave him to sort him out. I did this & we picked him up a week later & he never stopped at another fence. This was about 15 years ago. When I saw Ted again he asked how things had gone & I told him & he said I knew that guy would sort him out & he would do it kindly. OMG Ted really knew horses RIP Ted,
Look at this video & you'll see Ted jumping The Hickstead Derby with a broken arm, what a man.

#TBT: That Time Ted Edgar Jumped the Hickstead Derby with a Broken Arm

Show jumping legend Ted Edgar has been heralded as a larger-than-life character, an innovator ahead of his time and a gifted horseman. He’s also a straight-up bad a**. A leading jockey in the 50s, 60s and 70s, Edgar captured the King George V Gold Cup in 1969 and twice won the leading Showjumper...

horsenetwork.com

Yes Ted Edgar was such a lovely man, always wearing his very worn and old ibig thick brown camel coat. He had no airs or graces. Just down to earth and genuine.

He used to watch the BN and Disco classes where I used to compete BS and he was friendly with my o/h who worked at the competition centre and so spoke to me often. He watched me walk a course the one day sat with my partner and told me I'd walked it incorrectly and explained how I should have walked it (by taking the route the horse will go) instead of just going from one fence to another.

I've never forgot his advice.

 

[Red-1]

I'd be worried TBH.

I took a horse to a pro SJ yard. In fact, I have been there several times, with 3 different horses. They would have cracked on and have a selection of saddles / shims / numnahs and would have been able to fit the horse up with something that fitted.

With a young horse, I wouldn't have been happy with 2 weeks of lungeing 4 x a week, if it is the wizz 'em round type as opposed to lots of walk/trot/halt transitions. Plus more lungeing now? If it has been lungeing for exercise, I think that is more a full livery than a schooling livery.

I am also perplexed at them wanting you to ride first. You are sending him there because they are more experienced. I am interested in what the other alarm belles are of which you speak.

If you have a good feel, I would perhaps leave it another week, but I would prefer, for me, to have a yard who can self-motivate and sort stuff out. Including a problem, if there is one!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I think you need time with the YO and proper communication. I’d give them a chance but if you’re not feeling comfortable with the yard, move. Maybe it’s just the lack of communication, but I’d want someone who is proven and knows exactly what you’re after, it’s scary to give someone your youngster!

 

[rara007]

Think we have a bit of a plan, which is no longer plan A of the yard doing the training. Need to check the next rider has availability plus it’s financially viable for me but it’s mutually agreed that plan A isn’t going ahead. They expected him to be more advanced than he is. To be honest he is more advanced than he looks with me on and he’ll progress fast as the basics are there driving but I’m happy with plan B.
Had a good session by myself again tonight! He’s actually pretty intelligent, not a dumbblood!

picture of us both doing what we do best back in Holland: