Livery selling horse, what would you do?

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natalia

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Hi,

Just after a general opinion! We run a well established dealing yard, quality riding club, hutners and sj horses. We also have a riding school and liveries. A few months ago a new livery turned up, she is pretty much clueless. She had bought a 16.1hh chestnut ex racer TB gelding with the worst case of bar fired legs I have ever seen and a very cranky temp. to match, basically something that really should be in a tin! The horse is a nightmare to deal with, is never happy in itself, and goes from being lazy to down right dangerous to ride. She also brought with her an "instructor" who is a complete nightmare but thats another story. She has now decided to sell said horse (he's on H&H online and I think has been in the mag) and is advertising him as a perfect pott. event horse for a teenager! I have resorted to waiting outside the gate when customers are about to leave with a desperate look on my face telling them that this horse is nothing to do with us or the yard in general, and please don't buy it. I think people may think I'm slightly mad, but really don't want any comeback as feel that this reflects badly upon us as a yard and the decent horses we sell! I am in constant terror that the nice clients she keeps getting off her horse and hound advert may think it has something to do with us. So what would anyone else do? Should we tell her to send it away to be sold? Or just be brutally honest, trouble is once he's gone she wants to buy a safer type to have as a livery, so don't want to upset her, but really don't the cranky horrid thing having any reflection on us at all! This is really difficult as the majority of liveries on the yard bought their horses from us in the first place, so when it comes to resale we are happy for them to go ahead or we will help them out with the sale.
 
OMFG!

It really is not your place to stop a livery client from selling their own horse. The most you ought to be doing is having a quiet word with them about the ethics of mis-representing the horse and the potential for it to come back on them getting sued or something. What you have been doing is totally out of order. :mad:
 
Out of order?!!!! sorry, but i think you would like to know if you were pot. thinking about buying something that has had some very very dangerous moments both in the school and on the road or putting your child on it!!!
 
Sorry, have to agree with Flame - It's not your place to put people off irrespective of how well meaning you are.

I would, however, strongly advise the seller that mis-representation can land them in very hot water and that if a prospective buyer approaches you for advice then you would have to be 'up front' and tell it how it is.
 
The way I see it is you have 2 choices

Either tell owner to clear off the yard, make up some excuse about breach of rules/contract etc if you have to so that this sale will not infringe upon you. Though I don't see how it should since it is not you selling the horse but one of your livery's.

Or keep out of it and let the owner do what she wants to do. Unless the horse is doped up then I think any person with even a modicum of common sense would discover the horse has a problem when they see it and try it out. It cannot be perfect all of the time so would have to step out of line on some occasions and people should be able to spot that.
 
natalia said:
Out of order?!!!! sorry, but i think you would like to know if you were pot. thinking about buying something that has had some very very dangerous moments both in the school and on the road or putting your child on it!!!
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That isn't the point. You are interfering in a transaction that does not concern you. As the YO, if you were to be involved at all, which you are not, your loyalties ought to lie with your livery customers IMO.
 
i do think YOs have a level of responsibilty about what goes on on their yard - which i think covers people selling dangerous horses from their yard. perhaps stopping the buyers by the gate isn't how to deal with it, but i do understand why the OP is doing it.

there must be a way of dealing with it. how reasonable is the owner? would she/the instructor listen if you were to explain things to them? x
 
If the horse is really as bad as you say i would suggest to her that she does the responsible thing and have it put down or at least have the vet to it as it sounds uncomfortable. there are too many horses out there as it is and he will end up at the meat man sooner or later (if he is that bad) so she should live up to her responsibilities and end his suffering not allow him to get passed from pillar to post.
 
I have to agree with flame. Who she sells the horse to really is none of your business.

I can understand where you are coming from but she is only selling from your yard, not under your name.
You say that you dont want to upset her but if she found out what you were doing I think she would be extremley annoyed.

You need to either have a word with her or stay out of it and grit your teeth.
 
Tell her straight.....either she advertises the horse in a responsible way (ie project horses) OR she accepts her notice to leave as you will not stand by and watch the horse misold.
 
You want your cake and eat it too.

If you want to make sure the horse is not 'connected' to your yard you need to be upfront with the owner and tell her she either has to be honest with prospective buyers or take the horse elsewhere to sell it.

However you want to keep her as a livery and also to sell her a horse, no doubt! Therefore you should put up and shut up.

You need to decide which way to jump.

I would not be risking my reputation; TBH sneaking to the yard gate to put off her buyers doesn't look great for your reputation either!
 
Personally, I would have a quiet word and ask them not to mis-represent the horse if it is to be sold on this yard, as you have a reputation to maintain. If she chooses to continue selling the horse as something it is not, then I would ask her to take it elsewhere to sell.

I know potentially she could remain a livery with another horse, but you have to think about the long term result. Loose a livery client or gain a potentially bad name, despite it not being your horse.
 
I must agree i think you are totally wrong to be standing at the gate putting people off , you are neither doing the horse or the owner any good by acting in this manner.
Who is to say that somebody will come along and work with this horse in a way that has not been achieved so far?
It only takes the right person and tbh it is up to prospective owners to decide the horse is not for them.......... not you!
Sorry, I am a nice person really ;)
 
I can see your frustration, it must be a difficult situation. I can completely see where you are coming from as well.

It would be better to talk to the livery about it and explain to her the implications of misleading people - if she finds out what you've been doing then no doubt she will tell everyone about what you've been doing and that will hit your reputation hard as well.
 
if your yard and horses are as good as you say then i wouldn't be worried about it!

i feel sorry for the horse though, let her sell it without interfering, poor bugger might end up in a nice home with people who can deal with it and any issues it has. if i was that livery i sure as hell wouldn't be keeping my next horse with you if i found out what you were saying to people coming to view my horse!
 
Agreed, lose a client or gain a bad rep. Thing is she bought this horse as a rescue, she told us that when she arrived and that he would never be sold on. Now here she is trying to sell said rescue horse as an eventer and also asking £2500 for it. Because its her baby I cant very well march in and tell her it needs to be shot (which if we are honest it really does as its not a happy horse and has very little future if passed on as could easily end up in the wrong home.) Maybe waiting at the gate isn't the done thing, but I won't stand by and let anyone get hurt by the horse. It is very unpredictable, may be fine a for a few days or weeks then really go a bit funny. Her horrendous instructor is the real root of this problem, as she has been feeding her lies about how great horse is, and how well he jumps etc. Trouble is we can't tell her no outside instructors allowed as a few other people have them too and this would create a real issue as she would be sure to bring up when other peoples come in and hers isn't allowed.
 
That puts a totally different light on it for me........ I dont believe you should 'rescue' a horse to sell it on again. Loan it on to a suitable home but not sell it, so as far as she is concerned it is not her 'baby' anymore because she rexcued the poor thing and is now getting rid of. Is this a horse she got cheap as a rescue and is now attempting to make money on????
 
sadly this is nothing new in land of la horse land people selling unperfect horses as perfect hacks exracehorses as first horses someone will buy somewere along the line the op sounds responsible and feels helpless but will be caught up in this if livery finds out , best keep out of it and head down and let purchaser make thier own minds up ,if they have had viewings they have been unsuccesful in selling .
Op could put a notice on gate legally and new clause in contract on livery contracts that private sales liveries are nothing to do with yard .
Is the instructer bhs?
 
Ahhh but Asbo, your horse is probably normal! We have no problem with people selling their horses as described or if they are half way decent, but this is really a screw and unfit for anything apart from pet food. I'm all for treat others as you would like to be treated, and if I went to see a horse like this I would very much like to be told that it's no good! Sadly the type of person who will buy this will be a very nice well meaning individual who lacks knowledge and will not only end up in serious trouble but also end up telling all their friends that the horse came off our yard (and if we don't say anything then doubtless this will bite us in the arse too). I feel we have a moral responsibility to tell people but its almost damned if you do and damned if you don't. I shall suggest project horses to her tomorrow and see how this goes down.
 
I think you could lose your reputation by doing this as well to be honest, hard though it is. You're pretty easily identified by your posts on the Net.
You need to have an honest discussion with your livery (before she gets directed to this thread). When you do that you need to know what outcome you want, if she tells you to mind your own business, the buyers can make up their own minds, then you need to know if you are going to give her notice to leave or not. It is to be hoped that any inexperienced buyers who might visit would bring someone knowledgeable with them, as some of the horse's problems will be obvious. And that they'd have some sort of vetting before buying.
 
asbo said:
poor bugger might end up in a nice home with people who can deal with it and any issues it has.
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equally, he might just as easily find a home where they can't deal with it, and end up getting hurt/confidence wrecked. because it was missold. and not only is that not fair to the new owners, or the horse... it could also backfire on the person selling the horse...

... and the YO of the yard she was selling it from...

x
 
TBH, I would ask her to leave, sod a new horse she might or might not buy and might or might not keep with you on livery... Regardless how nice the future horse will be, you will still have her instructor coming...
 
nothing normal about any of mine lol, and the ones i have just now have been mistreated in their last homes.

any horse can end up in a good or bad home, my lad is a example of that, home before me was crap.

end of the day, you ask her to leave or you stay out of it is the only way to go.
 
martlin said:
TBH, I would ask her to leave, sod a new horse she might or might not buy and might or might not keep with you on livery... Regardless how nice the future horse will be, you will still have her instructor coming...
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Totally agree and as good, honest sellers/dealers are soooo hard to come by its refreshing to see someone in Natalias's position genuinely giving a damn for all the reasons she lists. A good reputation is priceless and it only takes one bad report to spoil it.I only wish certain dealers had been honest with me recently, a lot of costs and anguish could have been avoided. Good on ya Natalia and good luck resolving the problem!
 
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