Livery termination. Help.

[Tinkertoes]

Hi there, was just after advice and opinions regarding my current situation.
We have been at a livery yard a long time, we pay 1st of the month for the months livery and on the 5th March we were given a letter to say the yard was closing and we had 1 month notice to 5th April to leave.

We have found another yard and intend to leave on the 21st March, we then got asked the other day if we want 1st-5th April invoicing, we stated we won’t be there at that time.

our contract states 1 month notice must be given on termination, the letter we received regarding closure states that all monies Owed to the date of departure must be paid in full. What are my rights here as a livery? I will already be paying 2 weeks of double livery, can’t really afford to be paying three especially when it isn’t our choice to do so and have no other choice.

do I have to pay the 5 extra days or are we within our rights to leave it at the month as that is after the departure date?
Thanks.

 

[reynold]

In a similar situation a few years ago we were forced to pay up to the end of the 30 day notice despite leaving before that date in order to keep the place at the new yard.

Our yard also gave 30 days notice due to the yard having been sold and closing but the owner wanted to get every last penny he could out of us.

Edit to say that we also had contracts that stated 30 days notice if we wanted to leave.

 

[AmyMay]

What day did you give your notice formally?

 

[Tinkertoes]

What day did you give your notice formally?

It isn’t us that have given any notice. we paid our livery on the 1st of March and then on the 5th March was given a letter saying the yard was closing and we had to be off by 5pm 5th April and this was our 1 month notice.

 

[Goldenstar]

I don’t think you have to pay the first to the fifth .

 

[ycbm]

Legally you owe them, I think. But I also think in that situation I'd be making them take me to the small claims court for it, it's unreasonable, imo, to charge you if they are shutting down and causing you extra cost.

 

[AmyMay]

It isn’t us that have given any notice. we paid our livery on the 1st of March and then on the 5th March was given a letter saying the yard was closing and we had to be off by 5pm 5th April and this was our 1 month notice.

No I realise that. But presumably you told the yard you were leaving on X date (once you found the new yard).

Anyway, it’s semantics. Pay your livery bill up to the first of April.

 

[Tinkertoes]

No I realise that. But presumably you told the yard you were leaving on X date (once you found the new yard).

Anyway, it’s semantics. Pay your livery bill up to the first of April.

Ahh right I get you, no we haven’t told them the date we plan on leaving just that we will be gone before our paid livery is up. They then said that we had to pay to the 5th even if we had left.

 

[reynold]

Does your contract state 30 days notice on either side?

If so (ours did) you are liable for the payment until the 5th April

 

[Goldenstar]

You pay monthly and have paid for the next month.

 

[dorsetladette]

You've paid up to the end of the month and are leaving before that date, so no i don't think you need to pay the first 5 days of April. I think the YO might of sent that message as a fishing exercise to find out who was still going to be around as of the 1st of April.

Think you'll be fine.

 

[Annagain]

No I realise that. But presumably you told the yard you were leaving on X date (once you found the new yard).

Anyway, it’s semantics. Pay your livery bill up to the first of April.

OP already has - the yard is trying to charge her from the 1st until the 5th of April as they didn't give notice until the 5th of March.

Under the circumstances, I think that's a very greedy thing for them to do. Presumably they knew on the 1st and didn't tell you until the last possible minute to get as much cash out of you as possible. Can you avoid having to answer for a bit and see what happens? Otherwise tell them to invoice you, I'd be tempted to not pay and see what they do.

 

[Kaylum]

Pay for when you have been there only they gave you the notice of a month. They cannot expect you to pay for when your not there and they have given you notice. Tell them to do one!

 

[Fransurrey]

I appreciate the 30 days notice either side, but normally from the owner's side that's if they want a livery to leave a yard that's staying open for others. In these circumstances they should really be more understanding! I'd just go on the date you plan to. Normally I'd say pay, but not as they're the ones forcing you to leave. Vacancies often need to be taken asap, as owners refuse to keep them open without payment. Surely they realise that?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

They should have given you the month's notice on 1st March, or waited until 1st April, they can't just arbitrarily hand out notice mid-month. I wouldn't pay anything further.

 

[sport horse]

We have found another yard and intend to leave on the 21st March, we then got asked the other day if we want 1st-5th April invoicing, we stated we won’t be there at that time.

I think the simple answer to their question is 'No thank you we do not want invoicing. goodbye.'

I own property andas we wanted to sell the flats we gave the tenants three months notice. They found other accommodation before the threee months were up and we did not press for the rent for the remaineder of their contract. Fair is fair.

 

[Leandy]

I think the simple answer to their question is 'No thank you we do not want invoicing. goodbye.

This. Surely they wouldn't ask if they were going to charge it anyway? I think they are entitled to charge you until 5 April as they complied with the contract and gave you one month's notice and are making the livery available until 5 April. Unless the contract actually said that notice could only be given as of the start of a month, I think one month can run from the 5th. I do however, given the circumstances, think they are very mean to be charging you beyond the 1st and if it were me I would tell them in no uncertain terms that I did not expect to pay anything after 1st as I am not using the livery then and the only reason I am leaving as of the 21st is because I am being forced to find somewhere else.

 

[Polos Mum]

Normally (and probably legally) it's a months notice - irrespective of when you pay. To stop paying on 30th of the month notice would have to have been given (by either party) on the 1st of that month. It wasn't.

So if you decided to tell them you were going leaving on the 15th you would owe them until the 14th of the next month

When you physically leave is irrelevant - you could (and many do) leave the day you tell them and pay double livery for the month (mostly to avoid hassle / secure better yard), you could (many others do) leave on the last day of your notice and have no duplicate livery - all up to you.

However it's pretty unfair to bill you when they have forced you out. So legally they are right, morally they are wrong

 

[lannerch]

For a start one months notice brings it to the 4th of April so 4 days livery . That’s surely too small an amount to be worth the livery owner pursuing under the small claims court . I think you safe just paying until the end of the month .

 

[Tinkertoes]

Normally (and probably legally) it's a months notice - irrespective of when you pay. To stop paying on 30th of the month notice would have to have been given (by either party) on the 1st of that month. It wasn't.

So if you decided to tell them you were going leaving on the 15th you would owe them until the 14th of the next month

When you physically leave is irrelevant - you could (and many do) leave the day you tell them and pay double livery for the month (mostly to avoid hassle / secure better yard), you could (many others do) leave on the last day of your notice and have no duplicate livery - all up to you.

However it's pretty unfair to bill you when they have forced you out. So legally they are right, morally they are wrong

That’s the thing and if we don’t move when we do we risk losing the new livery we have found and I also have a holiday at the start of April so want to make sure they boy is all settled in his new home before I leave for a week ?

 

[PeterNatt]

Under noral circumstances do you pay 4 weeks in advance from when the previous 4 weeks rental period has ended?

If that is the case then you are under normal circumstances obliged to pay the next 4 weeks rental in advance.

However, the yard has given you notice that they wish to close and asked you to have left by the date of closure.

It is theerfore not unreasonable for them to expect people to leave before that date and just accept that they will only be paid up to the time that the liveries are there.

Under these circumstances no court in the country would compel you to pay for the period after you have left to the date of closure of the yard and in fact would question why you had not been given longer notice as no doubt the owners of the yard knew about it for a far longer period of time.

If you want to be totaly fair just pay up to the time that you leave but there is no dubt that they have been unreasonable in giving you so little notice.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I wouldn't pay, but did you tell them you were leaving on the 21st? They surely can't expect liveries to stay til the closing date!

 

[SEL]

When my old yard closed people paid until the date they left - & I know some didn't catch up with "extras" they just went.

I'd just go as you plan. I doubt they really expect the April money just hopeful.

 

[blitznbobs]

Id just go - its going to be a right royal pain in the arse to sue everyone for the money — gut feeling is they wont bother

 

[saddlesore]

Not a chance I’d be paying that I’m afraid. There are usually hoops to jump through in such cases in case you get a bad name as a livery but that clearly won’t happen as they are ceasing to trade. They’re at it.

 

[Equi]

Don’t pay it. If they kick up a fuss tell them to take you to small claims. I doubt they will for the amount of monies it is.

 

[McFluff]

Legally, yes they can charge.
Morally they shouldn’t as they’ve served notice (and given its closure, they’ve been minimalist with that!)
if it was me I’d leave on 21st and ignore all requests for the five days. It’ll cost them more to claim than it’s worth.
hope your move goes well.

 

[Lois Lame]

I don’t think you have to pay the first to the fifth .

I agree with this.

The way I understand the question of the livery yard is: 'Do you want to stay on from 1st to the 5th of April? If so, we need that money up front.'

So, you don't owe them any money as you have paid for all of this month and you are leaving on 21st of this month.

 

[Honey08]

It’s really mean of them to be picky over five days livery, whether they’re right or wrong, when they’ve not given you much notice before the yard closes. Greedy things!

 

[Lois Lame]

... the yard is trying to charge her from the 1st until the 5th of April as they didn't give notice until the 5th of March.

Under the circumstances, I think that's a very greedy thing for them to do. Presumably they knew on the 1st and didn't tell you until the last possible minute to get as much cash out of you as possible. Can you avoid having to answer for a bit and see what happens? Otherwise tell them to invoice you, I'd be tempted to not pay and see what they do.

Not the way I read it.

BUT, I've been at one place where the new owners became greedy and that's why many of us left. If they are pulling a swifty, shame on them.

I think it's safer to assume though that they are simply asking, 'Who needs or wants to stay til 5th April? We'll need that bit of money up front.'