Livery -v- daughter 🙁

Ticky

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I’m a yard owner and have a problem.......my adult daughter has been looking for a horse for literally a year and thought she’d found THE horse in November. Passed vetting and X-rays of feet and hocks. Horse arrived at yard and was seriously chilled. However, cutting a long-ish story short, new mare has become unbelievably attached to mare belonging to one of my liveries and new mare has not only become un-rideable but her behaviour has become bordering on dangerous to handle. She is obsessed. Other mare is very mare-ish and “squirts” in her face over the fence. I always liked the livery who owns the other mare but she has recently had a baby and isn’t at the yard as frequently as she used to be. I had to ask her to bring her two horses in overnight (she’d been leaving them out without my permission) and there were literally MONTHS of droppings in the field, which I pointed out to her. I really liked this livery, but lately she’s changed. I know she’s had a baby but .........🙁. My daughter is now thinking of selling this mare for a pittance (she wasn’t cheap!!!!) because she can’t do anything with her. Livery seems oblivious to the problems (and I’ve only skimmed over them - there are REAL problems!). We’ve put new mare in field furthest away from livery’s mare but she just stands in field looking in livery’s mare’s direction. However, I can’t give livery her marching orders just because her mare is upsetting my daughter’s new horse...or can I? No bitchy comments, please, this a real dilemma! Thank you! I’m not a nasty livery yard owner - my problem is that I’m too soft!
 

meleeka

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Has the livery improved since you had a word? If so I think it would be unfair to ask her to go. It’s quite possible that daughters horse will just get attached to something else and you could end up with no liveries! I think getting to the bottom of why the new mare is getting to attached is more important.
 

Ticky

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Livery has improved since I had a word about droppings and a couple of other relatively minor issues but she seems oblivious to problem with our new mare.
 

JJS

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Your daughter's mare is the issue, not the livery. If you give the latter her marching orders, the former will only end up fixating on another horse once her current amour has gone. Is daughter's mare on shared turnout or individual?
 

Ticky

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Individual. Like I said, livery’s mare is known to be mare-ish and was swirting in our new nare’s face.
 

splashgirl45

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why is the livery's mare in the wrong? has she been a problem previously? sounds like it is the new mare that is the problem, has she seen the vet? is she in a field on her own? just seen that she is on her own if so she may just need a companion in with her..and move her and companion further away. many mares in season show to other horses of either sex, its natural.....
 

hobo

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As an owner of a mare that is a sexual preditar I feel for you. I tried regumate last year and it did help. If she was younger I would consider having her ovaries removed . Mine is a lovely mare but seasons all year round and latches on to friends when in season. If everything else is good about the mare try regumate or start with a herbal hormone additive. I will say mine has got worse with age so it will be for the long haul.

I agree with JJS removing other livery will not make any difference she will just fall in love with someone else.
 

Ticky

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Individual. Like I said, livery’s mare is known to be mare-ish and was “squirting” in our new mare’s face.
 

be positive

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Livery has improved since I had a word about droppings and a couple of other relatively minor issues but she seems oblivious to problem with our new mare.

The issues with your mare are not anything to do with the livery so she may well be oblivious, I have a small livery yard and have had the odd horse that for whatever reason causes issues that have to be worked through but it is not usually the fault of the owner so we try and find a solution.

Your mare may have become obsessed for some reason and my first thought would be to get a vet to check her ovaries and if nothing shows to then put her into some seriously hard work so she has less time to think about her new best friend, mares can be tricky to deal with at the best of times but once they are on side can be super.
 

Ticky

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As an owner of a mare that is a sexual preditar I feel for you. I tried regumate last year and it did help. If she was younger I would consider having her ovaries removed . Mine is a lovely mare but seasons all year round and latches on to friends when in season. If everything else is good about the mare try regumate or start with a herbal hormone additive. I will say mine has got worse with age so it will be for the long haul.

I agree with JJS removing other livery will not make any difference she will just fall in love with someone else.[/QUOTE

She hasn’t shown attachments to any other horse in adjacent paddocks, though. In her previous home, she was turned out in a “herd” without problems.
 

YorksG

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Was there a problem with the livery mare prior, to your daughter bringing the new mare t your yard? If so then the livery mare could perhaps be seen as the problem, or part of it. If there was no problem prior to the new mare arriving, then it is the new mare, who is perhaps not coping well with individual turnout.
 

splashgirl45

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your daughters horse has come from a yard with herd turnout and you have changed her to individual, she will be feeling insecure as her day to day routine is completely different so it is a big change and she has only been with you for a short while. i would get her in a field with others a s a p and you will quite likely find the horse your daughter bought....also have you changed her feed or the amount of work she gets, these things all can contribute to her being unsettled. good luck with finding a solution...
 

Ticky

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I really don’t know how this situation is going to pan out. As I said, new mare’s behaviour is bordering on dangerous. Also, as I said, new mare wasn’t cheap and my daughter had been searching for a new horse for almost a year. It wasn’t an “impulse” purchase, there was a lot of thought and research into her previous owners before purchasing her. My daughter is at her wit’s end 🙁.
 

JJS

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I'll be entirely honest with you: I think your daughter's mare needs herd turnout. She's gone from having companionship to only being able to see other horses over a fence, and whilst that works for many, some will never settle with such a set-up. She sounds like she feels dangerously insecure, and has latched onto another horse who, for whatever reason, make her feel safer. Is it not possible to give her a friend - maybe even two or three - and see if her behaviour improves?

If that is where the root of your problem lies, taking the other mare away will make no difference at all, as she'll just find someone else to act as a comfort blanket. All you'll be doing is losing a livery, leaving yourself out of pocket, and your livery with the unfortunate task of finding somewhere else when she's already struggling to adjust to having horses and a baby.
 

SEL

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I have a mare who can get obsessive over other mares. It's happened at 3 yards all with different setups and (to me) random mares. She flirts with geldings too so not fussy!

She's out with my gelding who luckily ignores her flirting with other horses.

I've never bothered with regumate. I do my best to insist on good manners and keep her in a routine. At her worst I was leading in a bridle and hat for my safety. That particular obsession was a very dominant mare, but the most recent one was quiet and seemed to pay no attention at all to my horse.

Might be worth trying regumate
 

pippixox

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My mare was temporarily on her own when I first had her (she had been abandoned at the yard by a loaner so YO could not risk putting her in with others with no owner around)
Anyway.... when I took her on, shortly after a new mare came and went in with her. My mare was obsessed. It was a long track to walk back to the field. I would manage to get her in to ride but she took off back down the track when I tried to walk her back to field.
But we kept them in together and with in a few weeks she calmed right down. Never had a problem with over attachment again. Always had some company, but actually she isn’t that clingy. In general she is quite an independent horse.

I think she became so clingy because she felt insecure after time alone. She had been through a lot of change.

Personally I would be tempted to put them in together.


Your other problem is separate- the livery has had a baby so her standards have dropped. You can’t let her take the mik but it is very hard. But she does still have to respect yard rules on turn out or get a friend or pay someone else to help her.
 

chocolategirl

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Livery has improved since I had a word about droppings and a couple of other relatively minor issues but she seems oblivious to problem with our new mare.
Tbf, it’s not your clients fault how your new mare is reacting to her mare, however, the other issues you mention, as a YO myself, would be totally unacceptable. It sounds like you’ve sorted those problems out now though hopefully? Now back to your mare, I would say the issue is with her, not the other mare. She’s obviously insecure for whatever reason and you may have to do a bit of detective work to find out why😏 as another poster said, I think your mare would be much better as part of a herd where she has other horses to focus on and befriend. I speak from experience as I’ve had both mares and geldings over the last 45 years. It’s only ever been when horses are kept in 2’s that it’s caused an issue and that was only with one clients horses. My own mare has a ‘special’ friend within her herd of 8, but I’ve never in the 9 years I’ve owned her, had any problem at all with separation anxiety etc. In fact, in all my years of ownership I’ve been very lucky in that I’ve been able to take horses out without any trouble. Have you spoken to her previous owner to see if this is usual behaviour for her? Good luck finding a solution, it probably won’t be easy 😏
 

Ambers Echo

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Bottom line is that it is your yard and you can ask her to leave on the basis of her mare's behaviour. I was once asked to move off when my gelding was aggressive to a new horse. It was the new horse who upset the herd dynamics which had been fine for a couple of years up to that point but it was MY horse who was being aggressive so he was kicked off. I did not like it but I had to lump it.

BUT as all the above posters have said, that might not actually solve your problem so you would upset a good livery, lose money and still have an unsettled insecure horse.
 

LaurenBay

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It sounds like its your daughters Horse causing the issue, totally unfair to give the other livery notice. Chances are she will only attach on to another Horse and you can't kick all your liveries off to accommodate your daughters Horse. Let her have herd turnout, have a detailed discussion with vet and try Regumate and re access.

My mare would get very attached to certain Horses and was very flirty so I do understand the frustration, but I never blamed the other Horses.

Regarding the poo picking for other livery, have a word with her, tell her you need her to keep on top of her poo picking.
 

Clodagh

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I agree that your daughter's horse needs turnout with company. I know you keep reiterating it is individual turnout only but if it is your yard presumably it is your rules? So a companion could be allowed. Could you borrow and older pony from somewhere and try that? At least the pony hopefully won't react to your daughter's horse being a div. Your daughter will then have to be strong enough to insist that the mare works as required, it sounds as though her unacceptable behaviour is being allowed? If she is too dangerous to ride then lunge her, or get a pro to help. She needs to learn that the rider is in charge, not her. If the rider is strong then she will feel safer and then behave better.
I would put money on daughter's horse adopting a new obsession if you kick out the livery's mare, and spring is coming so they will all be squirting soon.
 

HeyMich

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Agree with all the posts above - the problem is not the livery (who may have her own problems, but not this one), but your daughter's mare.

I would get in touch with her previous owners and quiz them about every single aspect of her former routine - turn out, companions, feed, stabling, ridden routine, handling etc. Then I would try and emulate that as much as possible, and you may end up with the horse you bought. Then, and only then, can you change bits here and there to suit your new set-up. If any of the bad behaviour returns, you can pin-point the small changes and change it all back.

But don't blame either of the mares' natural instincts and needs, that's just not fair.
 

webble

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Your daughter's mare is the issue, not the livery. If you give the latter her marching orders, the former will only end up fixating on another horse once her current amour has gone. Is daughter's mare on shared turnout or individual?
This ^^ you have a new mare problem, not a livery problem or at least two seperate problems.
 

Rowreach

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Having been that person with the perfectly well behaved pony at a livery yard, who was forced out when another horse arrived and started causing chaos, which was then blamed on my pony, I feel quite sorry for your livery tbh (the poo picking etc are totally separate issues, which you have dealt with anyway).

My pony settled straight away into his new herd, while the incomer continues to cause trouble at the old yard. I suspect you may find exactly the same thing happens if you ask your livery to leave and don't sort whatever issues your daughter's mare has.

Have you spoken to the previous owners about her behaviour? They may be able to offer some ideas and more detail about the way they managed her.
 

Meowy Catkin

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I also think that you have two separate issues.

1. Livery had a baby and has let things slide at the yard.
2. You have bought a mare that is not suited to individual turnout and is becoming increasingly distressed.

I can understand why you have connected your mare' behaviour to liver's mare being a flirt, but I also agree that if that mare went, yours could easily find a new obsession. I have witnessed a mare driven mad (and I can't really think of any other way to describe it) by individual turnout. She had come from a stud on the Welsh hills that ran their horses as a herd. She was utterly beside herself with distress with company that she could see, but couldn't interact with and became very dangerous to handle and ride. Her story was not a happy one as that owner sold her to someone with no other horses at all when what she really needed was to return to a herd environment.

I would try moving your mare to a yard with large group turnout and give her time to readjust, if you cannot provide group turnout at your yard.
 

Bellaboo18

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Seperation anxiety is horrible and stressful but there's normally a way to manage it. If you find a way to manage the seperation anxiety chances are you'll have a happy horse again and one your daughter will enjoy. I imagine a companion is the only thing that will settle her. Little ponies normally do the trick as they are more interested in filling their bellies than getting pair bonded.
I wouldn't want to sell her for pittance, I'd want to get to the bottom of it.
I'd worry the stress of being out on her own could cause ulcers which would be another reason for her behaviour deteriorating.
 

Ticky

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Thank you all for your replies. Daughter is still at her wits’ end. However, just heard that daughter’s long-outgrown 14.1hh Section D is coming back to our yard beginning of February following being “borrowed” by a friend who needed a companion for her horse, but friend has now found a “permanent” companion so we can have our pony back and she can be turned out with new mare. I know almost everyone is siding with the livery but can any of you imagine how my daughter feels? Or the pressure I’m getting from my daughter? The prospect of having to sell her new horse because of a livery’s horse, the horse she’d been searching for for almost a year - the whole situation is crap!
 

splashgirl45

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i didnt side with the livery but dont think you getting rid of the livery would have solved your problem as you have changed the mares living conditions which she is used to and together with being in a different place with different people she is going to feel very unsettled, hopefully she will settle down once she has a companion...
 
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