Livery Yard Dilema????

[Holidays_are_coming]

Moved to a really small livery yard about 7 months ago and my good friends from a previous yard were already their. There are 9 horses and some lovely old cattle sheds as stables (my mare and her friend have the old cattle barn, its an amazing stable) The trouble is the land is clay soil, and prevously there has been no winter turnout, however when we moved we were assured that there was more land and winter turnout would not be a problem.

So come winter we all had our fields and went out on to long grass, the gateways have got really boggy (and the woman who lives at the yard, but doesnt own it, put walkways accross the summer fields, so we have churned loads of it up, I was walking a different way each day to protect the soil). We have been poo picking and putting out hay.

Last week the farmer came to say that he had just filled out his defra forms and he has to protect against poaching, so he asked us to move onto small patches of our summer grazzing, which we agreed after protest as one of the liveries wasnt helpfull at the meeting and just flirted with the farmer. We have put a plan into sort out the fields for next yr and put hardcore down at the gateways.

However today me friend put her gelding in a small field with a big gap to another horse he ran around and has pulled he shoulder muscle, he needs exercise and turnout due to other medical conditions, so his owner is distaught and rather p'd off!!

It feels like people dont think about the impact of horses on their land, and want the money but dont want them out. These horses all need turnout for various reasons a day or 2 in but no more.

There are very few other options and Im not sure what to do?? Sorry just had to write it all down, im lucky my mare is fine but it could have been her!

 

[conkers]

Its not really clear from your post what you are asking.
I am guessing that you want to know whether you should stay or go. Only you can answer that one I'm afraid. If you want more turn out then maybe finding another yard is the way to go.
Re you friends horse and his pulled shoulder, thats horses for you. He could have pulled it running around in the fields that you were originally in, as could any of your horses.

Personally, if I was on Clay as you say that you are, I would limit turn out anyway. It does get very boggy and I would want to limit the chance of injury to my horse as well as damage to my land. You are lucky that the farmer hasn't removed access to turn out altogether, especially if Defra are telling him to limit poaching.

 

[AmyMay]

Don't understand what the problem is. Defra forms and poached land - what's the connection?

As for the land itself - poaching happens when weather is wet, simple. Farmer then comes along and harrows and rolls and rests said land - and it recovers.

Some people (not you) make such an issue of grazing animals. Look after the land and it's not a problem.........

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Quote "However today me friend put her gelding in a small field with a big gap to another horse he ran around and has pulled he shoulder muscle, he needs exercise and turnout due to other medical conditions, so his owner is distaught and rather p'd off!!"

Horses do run around, that's what horses do & sometimes they injure themselves, again that's what sometimes happens. If the situation at the yard is not suitable for you or other liveries you just need to vote with your feet & go to another yard.

I've been at my present yard for several years but now things have changed & it is no longer suitable for us so we are moving on to another yard that suits us much more. There is no animosity between us & the YO, it's just time to move on. You may consider doing the same.

 

[Maesfen]

Don't understand what the problem is. Defra forms and poached land - what's the connection?

As for the land itself - poaching happens when weather is wet, simple. Farmer then comes along and harrows and rolls and rests said land - and it recovers.

Some people (not you) make such an issue of grazing animals. Look after the land and it's not a problem.........

Not quite as simple AM. Sounds like SFP who won't pay out if the land is damaged so he would have a huge drop in entitlements. However, if he's claiming those (and most farmers with any sense do, we even claim ourselves) then it behoves him to keep the land in good heart at all times and poaching is a sure fire way of losing those entitlements; I don't blame him for being restrictive TBH. But, if he wants liveries he's also going to have to sort it out, especially if he's on clay (as we are too!) whether he makes an all weather turnout so they can have a blast and stretch their legs or lets them trash one field only but the liveries will either have to abide by his decision or move. Just because they have horses there doesn't mean they can do as they like on his fields and aren't restricted to his terms; if they don't like his terms and conditions then they should move.

 

[AmyMay]

Not quite as simple AM. Sounds like SFP who won't pay out if the land is damaged so he would have a huge drop in entitlements.

Ah, thanks for the correction - I didn't realise that.

But, you can't have it both ways I suppose. Animals bugger up the land.

 

[Faro]

Can't vouch for the accuracy of this ('cos you learnt not to take as gospel everything that this chap said), but the farmer who I rented land from in the past had a go at me about poaching (even though it was only in gateways). He told me that Defra did frequent aerial observations/land surveys - and if they spotted poaching on his land, that he, the farmer, would be liable to a fine.

Like I said, whether it's true or not, I can't be sure - but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if there's some kind of legislation about it. And yes, I can fully understand the need for good land management and keeping poached areas to a minimum - but at the same time Defra have got to understand that where livestock are involved, it's impossible to eradicate poaching completely - so I find it hard to believe that they would come down so hard if the poaching were confined to just a small gateway area.

 

[jendie]

I think the SFP is a specific scheme that requires the farmer to keep the pasture in good condition at all times. That is why many of them won't allow horses to use their 'green lanes', they aren't being stroppy but just protecting their income. But perhaps this particular farmer needed to think about this before he opened a livery yard with all year turn out!

 

[smiffyimp]

In my experience (please dont shoot me down, its just IMO) yards that are started by farmers dont work! Mainly because they are diversifying which I wish them luck at, but they have no knowledge of horses (usually). A yard I was on, where they did have a supposed knowledge, the horses where at the bottom of the pecking order after pigs sheep and cows. They see things from a different point of view to most horse owners, which is fine, but somewhere there has to be a compromise if they want to make money out of you. The yard where I am now, although small and private is owned by a 'horse person'. She gets why they need turn out and that gates get boggy. She gets the need for safe fencing, water in water troughs! I could go on. BUT I pay for it, she isnt the cheapest (or the most expensive) but I could get a LOT cheaper on a farm if I wanted but would have to put up with all the things you mention. After my last experience - i'll stay put and fork out!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I can't remember the exact DEFRA wording but it does clearly state a requirement for farmers/landowners to keep the land free from excessive poaching.

Having said that, we've never (yet!!) had anyone from DEFRA to come and inspect here, thank gawd, but yes it is there in the DEFRA legislation and as we're also on clay here I do sympathise with the farmer's predicament. He's not being stroppy, he's having to comply with ridiculous and unweildy legislation that doesn't help anyone. There are a great deal more regulations than just this one too, so not helpful to farmers or anyone else.

As a YO I can identify with the dilemma here. No, the majority of farmers don't have a clue about horses and often offer equine livery with not a clue of what horses and owners require; e.g. they won't realise that its not doing horses any favours to be turned out into the same lush/green pastures they'd turn the cows out in during the spring/summer months! Bless them, its not their fault - and would any typical horse owner know the first thing about arable farming, or how to manage a herd of milking cows, or the diseases of the sheep? Of course not!

However, the dilemma is for the horse owner here. Back to the same old story I suggest - if the punter is not happy, then time to move on to where they will be content perhaps ...... no point in staying and moaning IMO.

 

[OWLIE185]

The basic Single Area Payment agreement is that poaching of land is a no no. This year farmers get about £67 per acre for Single Area Payments. I would suggest that your farmer/landowner invests some of his income in drainage of his heavy clay soil.